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Subject: Re: [ws-caf] Mt Everest and WS-CF
Jan Alexander wrote: >WS-Addressing does not place context into the address. What it does, it uses >set of SOAP headers to identify execution context for the particular >"Endpoint" by introducing EndpointReference abstraction. The EndpointReference >itself additionally contains logical address of the endpoint and a set of >policies, which are relevant to the use of that EndpointReference. > >It is important to distinguish between a service address and a service >instance identifier. The first is similar to for instance IP addresses and >port number, the second to CORBA IOR. I don't see anything against "SOA >principles" in the EndpointReference concept as it is not just a service >address. > I guess it depends if you see equivalence between SOA and distributed objects; I can say unequivocally that I do not. In the web services model, we talk about services and their capabilities, not object pointers. But that's probably a topic for another TC... > I agree that it would be useful to use WS-Context for mapping >EndpointReferenceProperties into SOAP headers as they identify the execution >context of the endpoint. > >Jan > > > _____ > >From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com] >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:25 AM >To: Greg Pavlik; Furniss, Peter >Cc: Green, Alastair J.; ws-caf >Subject: Re: [ws-caf] Mt Everest and WS-CF > > >+1. > >I'd also like to suggest that context embedded in an address isn't really the >right way to go. Despite the fact that we (Jim, Savas, myself and others) have >suggested that ReferenceProperties *could* use WS-Context, that doesn't >necessarily mean that it's the best way of tackling the problem. Suggesting >that context within an address is the right model is ignoring SOA principles. > >Mark. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Greg <mailto:greg.pavlik@oracle.com> Pavlik >To: Furniss, Peter <mailto:Peter.Furniss@choreology.com> >Cc: Green, Alastair J. <mailto:Alastair.Green@choreology.com> ; Mark ><mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com> Little ; ws-caf ><mailto:ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org> >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:56 PM >Subject: Re: [ws-caf] Mt Everest and WS-CF > > > >Furniss, Peter wrote: > > >Greg, > > > ><snip the earlier part of the alastair .. thread> > > > > > >A further comment on the IBM/MS product specs: there are in > >fact three > >contextualization mechanisms: one in WS-Coordination, one in > >WS-ReliableMessaging, and one in WS-Addressing. Putting aside > >WS-Addressing for a moment since it introduces a new model to the web > >services environment that I don't want to argue about here, let me > >observe that there is no fundamental distinction between the > >lifecycle > >control interface in WS-Coordination and WS-ReliableMessaging. Why > >shouldn't these be based on a common model? Wouldn't that in fact be > >simpler and less error prone? From there, it seems a small step to > >imagine the reliability and coordination/transaction contexts > >having a > >common root. I submit that this is in fact a flaw, not a strength, of > >the specification set; they they are unnecessarily complex due to the > >failure to deal with common constructs, idioms and patterns as, well, > >things-in-common. > > > > > > > >Well the WS-Coordination and WS-RM both have equivalent of "begin". > >WS-RM doesn't always use it, > >and when it is used, it is asked of the eventual receiver. The > >termination sequences are different, since WS-RM is just stopping, and > >WS-Coordination will have delegated to a transaction protocol. > > > >As contextualization, it is true that a message carrying the relevant > >headers is "in the context" of those headers, and subject to their > >implications. But the same is true of more or less any header - that's > >what they're for. WS-Addressing is particularly interesting because it > >is essentially "opaque context" - the reference properties don't need to > >contain any kind of identifier in the ws-context sense at all (it might > >tell the receiver which database to look in, but since only the receiver > >knows what they meant, that's fine - it's just a piece of syntactic > >partitioning of the address) > >Is it fine? What if it happens to conflict with another header since there are >no restrictions? I'd like to suggest that WS-Addressing would benefit from a >container and that this is generally a problem for contextualization based >solely on headers. > > > >. The other two would have an identifier but > >that's the only thing they share, I think. > > > >Peter > > > > > >
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