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Subject: Re: [ws-caf] the issue on Context type identification




Green, Alastair J. wrote:

>No, that's a mishearing or a misunderstanding. 
>
>It was tabled without objection, i.e. deferred for consideration at the
>next meeting. 
>  
>
OK. Like I said, I haven't seen the minutes, which is why I thought it 
had been un-tabled.

Mark.

>I asked if there was a way of untabling it for an e-vote before the F2F,
>if the e-discussion got far enough to make things clear, and Martin felt
>not. 
>
>I was trying to answer your concern about delay, while allowing time for
>the extra consideration to take place.
>
>So, I am still making arguments for my tabled motion, and hoping others
>will chip in to put me right, or support me, or amend my proposal.
>Hopefully this will allow a rapid resolution right at the start of the
>F2F.
>
>Alastair
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com] 
>Sent: 23 June 2005 15:48
>To: Green, Alastair J.
>Cc: Newcomer, Eric; ws-caf
>Subject: Re: [ws-caf] the issue on Context type identification
>
>I haven't seen the minutes from Monday's call yet, but I thought the 
>motion was withdrawn pending further discussion. I seem to recall you 
>saying you wanted to "un-table" it (my phrase).
>
>Mark.
>
>
>Green, Alastair J. wrote:
>
>  
>
>>We do have a proposal, which is my motion from the last meeting, which
>>has been tabled. It was, to paraphrase: to have an optional
>>WS-Context-defined context-identifying attribute whose value is a URI. 
>>
>>I moved to table (U.S. English sense) on the grounds that Greg believed
>>(and Kevin disbelieved) that this feature was possible to achieve
>>through existing facilities (attribute extension, if I understood
>>correctly), and that therefore my proposal was moot, unnecessary,
>>redundant etc.
>>
>>On subsequent reflection, I'm not sure that the issue is
>>    
>>
>XML-mechanical.
>  
>
>>The proposal to have a value which is opaque is important in this
>>proposal. According to me, there are two ways you can do this. All the
>>parties in a particular contractually-governed interaction can agree
>>that a header element attribute of name N, value type TV means: treat
>>    
>>
>as
>  
>
>>a context, or you can write that kind of convention down once in a
>>single standard specification, and decide what the value of N and TV
>>    
>>
>are
>  
>
>>within the standard spec's namespace etc. 
>>
>>Contract or statute, if you like. 
>>
>>However, I am not an expert in the mechanics of XML, and I've learnt
>>that those who are can throw a different light on these kinds of
>>statements or assumptions by non-experts like me. 
>>
>>So I am waiting for someone who is a mechanical expert to say: "that's
>>    
>>
>a
>  
>
>>wrong-headed way of posing the problem", or "OK, you are right to pose
>>the problem in that way: implementation choices do not contradict or
>>alter the overall approach being considered".
>>
>>If the experts say the latter, then I think the statutory approach is
>>preferable, which is my motion as it stands. 
>>
>>This will give Kevin's customers the opportunity to build what he
>>    
>>
>wants,
>  
>
>>will give Peter's customers the opportunity to build what he wants,
>>    
>>
>will
>  
>
>>give the sceptics the opportunity to do nothing, and will clear the
>>issue off the table.
>>
>>Procedurally: if the mechanical experts will speak, then once we have
>>listened to them we can either vote the tabled motion up or down at the
>>F2F, or we can have amendments etc to make counterproposals.
>>
>>Alastair
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com] 
>>Sent: 23 June 2005 15:09
>>To: Newcomer, Eric
>>Cc: ws-caf
>>Subject: Re: [ws-caf] the issue on Context type identification
>>
>>I don't think so at the moment, but I'd like to think we could be by
>>    
>>
>the
>  
>
>>end of the week if we put our heads together and really drive this as a
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>priority.
>>
>>Mark.
>>
>>
>>Newcomer, Eric wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Are we at the point at which we have one or more concrete proposals we
>>>can vote on?
>>>
>>>Eric
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com] 
>>>Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:36 AM
>>>To: 'ws-caf'
>>>Subject: [ws-caf] the issue on Context type identification
>>>
>>>I'm conscious that there has been very little follow up on the only 
>>>outstanding issue we have against WS-Context: whether or not (and 
>>>potentially how) we can identify an element within a SOAP header as a 
>>>context. I'd like to encourage people to discuss this via email before
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>>>the face-to-face next week so we can close this issue down quickly and
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>>>move on to the WS-ACID specification.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Mark.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>

-- 
Mark Little
Chief Architect
Arjuna Technologies Ltd
(www.arjuna.com)



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