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Subject: DRAFT MINUTES - Web Services Calendar (WS-Calendar) TC - 26 March 2010
Draft minutes of the TC meeting are available at
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-calendar/download.php/37159/Minutes_WS-Calendar-TC_20100326_Draft.txt
Regards,
Gershon Janssen
---
DRAFT MINUTES
Web Services Calendar (WS-Calendar) TC
26 March 2010 12:00pm ET, 05:00pm CET
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Thanks to LONMARK for the conference call support.
NEW ACTION ITEMS:
- Kavi #0006 / AI20100326-001 - William Cox
Send requirements on subject ordering to the list
- Kavi #0007 / AI20100326-002 - Toby Considine
Write up schedule objects and send to email list
- Kavi #0008 / AI20100326-003 - William Cox
Send requirement on attachment of things to intervals to list
- Kavi #0009 / AI20100326-004 - Eric Chan
Direct TC to calendar requirements of ICOM
- Kavi #0010 / AI20100326-005 - Toby Considine
Discuss with Eric and Oracle on contribution of ICOM materials to TC
Scribe: Gershon Janssen
0. Roll call, Agenda review
Meeting Attendees
Name Company Status
----- ------- ------
Toby Considine University of North Carolina Chair
Gershon Janssen Individual Secretary
William Cox Cox Software Architects LLC Member
Ed Koch Akuacom Inc. Member
David Thewlis CalConnect Member
Benoit Lepeuple LonMark International* Member
JeremyRoberts LonMark International* Member
Robert Old Siemens AG Member
Gale Horst Electric Power Research Institute Member
Eric Chan Oracle Corporation Observer
Bernard Desruisseaux Oracle Corporation Observer
This meeting quorates.
Additions to agenda:
- Bill to talk about OS timestamping if there's time
1. Minutes Approval
Meeting minutes of 19 March 2010
(http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-calendar/download.php/37100/Minutes_WS-Calendar-TC_20100319_Draft.txt)
are approved unanimously.
2. FYI / announcements from Chair, Secretary, Liaison
No announcements or information to share from chair and liaison.
Secretary:
Gershon: Updated voting status based on attendance per OASIS rules. If anything wrong, please drop me an email.
3. Open Action Item Review and Discussion
For action items overview, please refer to:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-calendar/members/action_items.php
- Kavi #0000 / AI20100305-001
Toby Considine: Request Jira access for the TC Issues list
Access has been requested; pending response.
- Kavi #0001 / AI20100305-003
William Cox: create a draft FAQ
Agreed on due date for April 1st.
- Kavi #0002 / AI20100305-004
Carl Mattocks: contribute uses cases on ebXML RegReg
No update; Carl is not on the call.
- Kavi #0003 / AI20100305-005
William Cox: send a draft overview of more detailed tasks for the TC to the list
Bill is not sure what this is about; will check with Gershon after the meeting.
- Kavi #0004 / AI20100319-001
Toby Considine: Put link to modern iCalendar and expository material on the TC home page
William Cox: T : I have task to put link; good links to all the recent work of Calendar Consortium as foundation for
what we're doing. Could you or someone you know send me an email.
William Cox: DT: Most of what you want is going to be internet drafts in progress at the IETC. I will provide you
something.
- Kavi #0005 / AI20100319-002
Gershon Janssen: Send URL on icom wiki to list
Done; action item completed.
4. Discuss issues
William Cox: DT: The version 1.2 of the draft web services work we're doing has been distrib to the TCXML committee. The
chair is out this week and next, so next TCXML call is on 6 April.
William Cox: T: Question about progress and product. A couple months ago there was general disc of efficient date-based
query for calendars. Might have a place in this space. Folks on this call, you who might be experts on what that looks
like.
William Cox: DT: Please restate: T: Part of WS-Caleendar - how one does general query about avail - date ranges, period
ranges. Semantic alignment on that area might be critical.
William Cox: DT: Remember the disc - being able to limit the query. Mike Douglas comment. Don't recall anything
substantial, have to raise on the next TCXML call. I don't think anyth further addressed.
William Cox: B: Some requirements on ordering - e.g. by start time of intervals. On this list?
William Cox: T: Stringing together a series of intervals, another is stringing together a list.
William Cox: ACTION BILL SEND TO LIST
William Cox: T: Focus on use cases, and what deliverable looks like. If differs from "all that stuff CalConnect did" -
Discuss on the list, how we use, and use these three other things. Move toward suggestions at that level. Aligning time,
space, and energy is nice.
William Cox: T: Think about what the component types look like. Want that out as an issue up front. Any other issues
anyone to raise?
* Explanation on sumbittal by Ed Koch / Akuacom / DR Requirements
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-calendar/email/archives/201003/msg00020.html
William Cox: EdK: Reqs simple, mirror some things doc by T in previous email.
William Cox: EdK; hierarchy of schedules. T called recursion of scheds - don't have to rep each level in the same way,
goes to my 3rd point.
William Cox: EdK: The 2nd point: a lot of use cases in DR and energy - partition a period into timeslots. That's a full
cover (mathematical sense; no overlap and fully covered).
William Cox: EdK: Common; worth pointing that out. It opens up the possibilty of creating reps that are easy to
decode/parse but also ensure that if you spec the right way no undue burden on validation of the time slots themselves.
William Cox: EdK: One way is tru recursion, start and end for each time slot. May add a lot of extra info, and
validation that the ends and starts match. Not nec for the spec. Goes to 3rd point - simpler, and can't create a spec
that's invalid.
William Cox: EdK: 4th point - had to do with assoc info with the time period specifying as part of the std. Part of this
will be sorted out in individual use - how that's done.
William Cox: EdK: In some cases, a data entity and a price, embed sched into price desc.
William Cox: EdK; other cases, OpenADR, shced is higher level, then assoc different prices with timeslots -- invert the
rel between the sched and the associated entities.
William Cox: B: Like pointing out the inverstions as requirements.
William Cox: T: I heard that a seq of partitions should be consectuve - conformance statement.
William Cox: T: I wouldn't be averse to "disconnected partitiion" - there's a widget that's a sequence of consecutive
partitions, may be a way to put two widgets int he same message with no overlap.
William Cox: Ed: A proper partition
William Cox: T: Have to name the widgets. Nervous about bidding for a 7 minute slot here and a 10 minute there..
William Cox: EdK artition, need not have partitions of equal duration. Simplistic - simple terms that define all the
partitions.
William Cox: T: Chars - I'm doing 15 slots, and #3 is 5 slots. Out wrapping of the widget and multiple things inside.
William Cox: B: what do you mean by "widget"?
William Cox: T: Thing we haven't defined yet.
William Cox: B: will send email - interesting comment, will need to come to requirements closure.
William Cox: T: Discussing Ed's requirements.
William Cox: EdK: Not anything particulary controversial.
William Cox: T: Clear conformance statement.
William Cox: B: Semantic validation - Ed: self consistency because of requirements so don't put substantial burndens for
validation.
William Cox: Ed: if req is cover and non-overlapping, don't have to do a lot of validation.
William Cox: T: If we have this "thingie" don't have to have times in the thingie - I have a thingie that looks to that.
DR could come in , 3pm this is happening.
William Cox: T: In the more generic CalConnect sched object contain the thingine and do the work.
William Cox: T: The "thingie" is one of 3-4 things we're creating.
William Cox: Ed: Haven't looked closely at the existing spec.
William Cox: T: I think this is left out of the spec.
William Cox: B: could do five minute meetings repeated this hour.
William Cox: T: Is this an abomination?
William Cox: Benoit: Repetition of a clean partition - for a certain period, just having the stop time of each slot is
enough because you know the start time of the next is the end point of the previous. No need for validation on gaps.
William Cox: Ed: Precisely what we're doing in OpenADR
William Cox: Benoit: and if clear recurrence, could be a very small message - need to define a set of elements having
start time and another element attached.
William Cox: Benoit: List stuff
William Cox: Ed: agreed.
William Cox: T: Two kinds: a simple quick parsing of a series of end times. Inherently low validation cost, charming.
William Cox: T: A bunch of thigns happening in this time order - time slots don't do it.
William Cox: ACTION TOBY WRITE UP OBJECTS AND SEND TO EMAIL LIST
William Cox: B: Point is to be able to attach things to the intervals - it's not enough to have an abstract description
of a cover.
William Cox: ACTION BILL send as requirement to the list
* Eric Chan to explain on iCalendar / icom
- Sequences of Intervals
http://wiki.oasis-open.org/icom/FrontPage
William Cox: Eric: Let me say ICOM - integrated collaboration object model.
William Cox: instant messaging, real time web conferencing, discussion forums, coord using calendar, journals, address
books for contacts, and also document management.
William Cox: EC: Treat as all kinds of content as artifacts. Treat address book entries as artifacts, ...
William Cox: EC: Then provide a space and folders to manage these heterog kinds of artifacts so can org by context and
semantics. Not the kind of arrangments with existing products (say reading email - can't mix with IM or docs)
William Cox: EC: Providing an integrated model. Concept of communities and spaces to manage the participants.
William Cox: EC: Participants - groups of users, roles that affect privileges and activities.
William Cox: EC: also groups of res. Bookable resources - for calendar sched (conf rooms, projectors). Users and
resources may participate and be scheduled in events. That provides the activities.
William Cox: EC: When have presence info on a user, adjust based on scheduled activities.
Toby Considine: Is "bookable Resources" an important term to remember in ws-calendar and in EnergyInterop?
William Cox: EC: When invited to a meeting by the time - presense shows in a meeting.
William Cox: EC: How thi may intersect wth your TC is user interactions. you might want to capture user presence in the
way it affects the scheduling and negotiation process in your domain.
William Cox: EC: Collab, users, alert that they're getting feedback about their presence.
William Cox: EC: The other area where we can complement each other - calendar is a module of ICOM - can point to a
figure (15). Different modules that are part of ICOM.
William Cox: EC: In ICOM entities are at a higher level, calendar one component in the broader env.
William Cox: EC: ICOM is mostly about collab with the software tools. Virtual world. Conference - people are using
voice/web conf. But also can be physical things, container above the calendar so can be used in the calendar.
William Cox: EC: iCalendar - modeling in ICOM using the artifact concept so the calendar content can be mixed iwth the
message content.
William Cox: DT: Just a couple of comments.
William Cox: DT EC just touched on resources. As I recall, used bookable resources such as conf rooms/projecors. Major
issue in cal/sched. Booking meeting rooms is the betw noire of the universe.
William Cox: DT: Just to last call on a spec that enhances iCalendar (REF?)
William Cox: DT: In EC's disc of ICOM touches on a variety of things broader than iCalendar. Some addressed in VCARD
work.
William Cox: DT: Second is comment Benoit made - be careful of limiting your reqs because something can't be done with
iCalendar as it stands.
William Cox: DT: May be things yuou want to do that are not natural for iCalendar. Some things through XCal that may not
ba approp in the iCal base,. and possible to extend the iCal base.
William Cox: DT: Don't avoid thinking about it because iCalendar can't do it today.
William Cox: T: Mirrors my thoughts. At some level, ICOM is an ecosystem. Overlaps strongly with IETF work. Clearly
dynamic conflict between the ICOM and iCalendar suites.
William Cox: T: Could fork, understand better/updates, or ????iCalandar could be a brdige between the missing IETF and
ICOM work.
William Cox: T: How baked is ICOM? Also have an observer on the committee whose company is very involved. WOould be
interesting.
William Cox: EC: Three stds being dev -- ?? Andry is director at IETF, good chance for liaison between the two bodies.
Another issue is ICOM can incorp calendar as a module.
William Cox: EC: Most concepts in IETF can be a module in ICOM. ICOM is a broader set of opss. - e.g. CMIS TC as generic
content management, a module in ICOM.
William Cox: EC: Could be other stds part of ICOM. Charter to def model to integrate existing stds, so seamless
transition across the different modules
William Cox: EC with an integrated model, lots of issues with impedance mismatch
William Cox: T: Is the ICOM committee available of the 5546, update of iMIP/iTIP?
William Cox: EC: Not yet, haven't gotten to point of defining the details of the calendar module. In early phase,
concept to tie modues together.
William Cox: EC: So far only def uppler level like scope, heterog folders and spaces, metadata mgt.
William Cox: EC: One important feature is to relate things from diff areas, have a complete conversation.
William Cox: T: Given that ICOM is broader space than we've spec WS-Calendar to. Could you direct the TC to the calendar
reqs of ICOM as they're undersood now, and also share with CalConnect. They're working on IETF space, we're working on
WS/Energy/Buildings.
William Cox: ACTION EC: Provide requirements - proposed
William Cox: EC: Have something to start from in ICOM. A lot is based on conributions from Beehive - already a calendar
module in beehive.
William Cox: EC: A lot of that know-how contributed. Can find starting point - baseline to work on. Model in Oracle
contribution.
William Cox: ACTION EC send link to the chat room.
William Cox: EC Cannot send to the list, only the chat.
William Cox: T: Eric, can the source of the contrib to ICOM be asked to submit to WS-Calendar.
William Cox: EC: So far only contrib to ICOM TC. The approval I get is only for the ICOM TC, need additional approval.
William Cox: EC: only for your information at this point.
William Cox: T: Informing use cases and requirements...not for the spec.
William Cox: ACTION TOBY take this disc with Eric and Oracle off line.
Eric S. Chan: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/icom/download.php/31833/BeehiveObjectModel_ICOM.pdf
* Classification of how many things are WS-Calendar
William Cox: T: (d) for next week. Submit suggestions to the list - what needs to be built. Focus on defining the N
things of WS-Calendar using the semantics form the IETF... that's where we start to get real?
5. Any Other Business?
William Cox: T: Timestamping for the next meeting as well.
William Cox: ACTION BILL PREPARE TIMESTAMPING DISCUSSION FOR NEXT WEEK
6. Adjourn
Gershon Janssen: Meeting adjourned.
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