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Subject: RE: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for discussion on the 7/28 conf-call


Since I am the only one arguing for "1.0" I think I can bring us to
consensus by withdrawing my argument. I agree it should be "1.1" (if we
don't touch the protocol) and "2.0" (if we change the protocol).

- g 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anish Karmarkar [mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:46 PM
> To: Marc Goodner
> Cc: Gilbert Pilz; ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of 
> issues for discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
> 
> Marc Goodner wrote:
> > First off the contributed versions of the specifications 
> were clearly 
> > marked 1.0. Any output should be at least 1.1.
> > 
> 
> I must have missed that on the contributions. I was looking at:
> http://specs.xmlsoap.org/ws/2005/02/rm/ws-reliablemessaging.pdf
> 
> Thanks for pointing it out.
> 
> > "Given the history/confusion around reliable messaging 
> (lower case), 
> > I'm afraid the distinction between *OASIS* WS-RM and the 
> other version 
> > of WS-RM would be lost to most folks who are not standards wonks."
> > 
> > That is exactly why the name of the specs should stay the 
> same. People 
> > think of this as lower case "reliable messaging", not "reliable 
> > exchange". The name has immense value that should not be 
> underestimated.
> > 
> 
> I'm not arguing for/against whether the name should be the 
> same, here. 
> As you know my colleagues from Oracle have already stated 
> their opinion on the TC ML ;-) All I'm saying is that if we 
> keep the ws-rm name then it should be something > 1.0, which, 
> as you have stated earlier, agree.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Anish Karmarkar [mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:06 PM
> > To: Gilbert Pilz
> > Cc: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: Re: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of 
> issues for 
> > discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
> > 
> > AFAIK, the proprietary specification WS-ReliableMessaging (all its
> > versions) were using dates (rather than version numbers). We are 
> > leaning
> > 
> > towards using version numbers (modulo the discussion on 
> issue i014 on 
> > the TC ML). Version 1.0 is typically associated with the 
> 1st version 
> > of the spec/product.
> > 
> > Within OASIS there have been two TCs (WSRM and WS-RX) 
> chartered to do 
> > something very, very similar; one of those TCs is called 
> 'Web Services 
> > Reliable Messaging'. There is already a lot of confusion 
> around this. 
> > (I
> > 
> > always get comments from folks saying -- I can never 
> remember which is 
> > which).
> > 
> > It is true that the file names 
> 'wsreliablemessaging-1.0-spec-os.pdf' 
> > and
> > 
> > 'wsreliablemessaging-1.0-spec-os.pdf' are different and so are the 
> > namespaces/boilerplate. But unless you are implementing the spec or 
> > are involved with the TC, this is not what folks look at 
> (if you print 
> > the doc, the file name is not relevant anyway). Given the 
> > history/confusion around reliable messaging (lower case), 
> I'm afraid 
> > the distinction between *OASIS* WS-RM and the other version 
> of WS-RM 
> > would be lost to most folks who are not standards wonks.
> > 
> > -Anish
> > --
> > 
> > Gilbert Pilz wrote:
> > 
> >>Hmmmm . . . I have a problem with saying that the version 
> is "1.1" or 
> >>"2.0" since, in my mind, a spec is scoped by the organization that 
> >>produces/publishes/recommends it. This is the first version of the
> >>*OASIS* WS-ReliableMessaging specification. As far as 
> confusion goes;
> > 
> > I
> > 
> >>don't think anyone should have a hard time telling the difference
> >>between:
> >>
> >>wsreliablemessaging-1.0-spec-os.pdf
> >>
> >>and
> >>
> >>ws-reliablemessaging200502.pdf
> >>
> >>A quick peek inside either document will tell you which is 
> which. From
> > 
> > a
> > 
> >>protocol level the namespace URIs will tell you which "version" you
> > 
> > are
> > 
> >>dealing with . . .
> >>
> >>- g
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Anish Karmarkar [mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com]
> >>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:46 AM
> >>>To: Gilbert Pilz
> >>>Cc: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of 
> issues for 
> >>>discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
> >>>
> >>>Gilbert Pilz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I have received some minor feedback on a couple of issues,
> >>>
> >>>but I don't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>know if I could say we have reached consensus. My general
> >>>
> >>>feeling is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>that people don't really care about these issues, so I
> >>>
> >>>think we should
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>just proceed with the proposals with a few ammendments.
> >>>>
> >>>>i015: Need "artifactName" values for WS-RM and WS-RM Policy
> >>>
> >>>documents. 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I sent email to 'oasis-member-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org' in an 
> >>>>attempt to clarify what this value should look like, but
> >>>
> >>>have received
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>no response. Need to change the "productVersion" value to 
> something 
> >>>>that can indicate minor versions (i.e. "1.0").
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>I *think* I had send some feedback on the version numbers, but not 
> >>>sure.
> >>>
> >>>IMHO, if we keep the spec name the same we should have a version 
> >>>number  > 1.0 (1.1, 2.0, whatever) to avoid confusion with the 
> >>>submission.
> >>>
> >>>-Anish
> >>>--
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>i016: Need to change the identifiers to reflect the above change:
> >>>>
> >>>>wsreliablemessaging-1.0-spec-wd-01.*
> >>>>wsrmpolicy-1.0-spec-wd-01.*
> >>>>
> >>>>i017: URL values need to be co-ordinated with Jamie, 
> Scott, et. al.
> >>>>
> >>>>- g
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>From: Patil, Sanjay [mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com]
> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:32 PM
> >>>>>To: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>Subject: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for 
> >>>>>discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I had meant to post it to the editors list ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>From: Patil, Sanjay [mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com]
> >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 23:24 PM
> >>>>>>To: wsrx
> >>>>>>Subject: FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for discussion
> >>>>>
> >>>>>on the 7/28
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>conf-call
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I am thinking of scheduling one or more of the issues 14,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>15, 16 and 17
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>for discussion on the 7/28 call. Is there a consensus among
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the editors
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>about the resolution of these issues. Any suggestions
> >>>>>
> >>>>>regarding which
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>ones are easy targets and which ones require further
> >>>>>
> >>>>>deliberations by
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>the editors team?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Basically, I am looking for simple issues for scheduling
> >>>
> >>>along with
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>some of the core design issues and wanted to get a feel from
> >>>>>
> >>>>>you about
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>which ones are straightforward, etc.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>>Sanjay
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>From: Marc Goodner [mailto:mgoodner@microsoft.com]
> >>>>>>>Sent: Monday, Jul 25, 2005 13:04 PM
> >>>>>>>To: Patil, Sanjay; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for discussion on 
> >>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>7/28 conf-call
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Can we also discuss i014 Document names and i016 document
> >>>>>
> >>>>>identifiers
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>to try to get some more of the editorial issues into he
> >>>>>
> >>>>>pending queue?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>From: Patil, Sanjay [mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com]
> >>>>>>>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 11:59 AM
> >>>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>Subject: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for discussion
> >>>
> >>>on the 7/28
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>conf-call
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Here is a proposed list of issues for discussion on the 7/28
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>conf-call.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>- Issue  i013: Max message number in policy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/download.php
> >>>>>>>/13697/Re
> >>>>>>>liableMessagingIssues.xml#i013
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>- Issue (i018): Is an implementation supporting a smaller
> >>>>>
> >>>>>max message
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>number valid?
> >>>>>>>See the first issue in the email:
> >>>>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/email/archiv
> >>>>>>>es/200507
> >>>>>>>/msg00193.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>- Issue (i019): Sequence termination on Fault  See the
> >>>
> >>>second issue
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>in the email:
> >>>>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/email/archiv
> >>>>>>>es/200507
> >>>>>>>/msg00193.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I urge the originators of these issues to come prepared for
> >>>>>
> >>>>>describing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>on the conf-call the motivating requirements as well as the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>proposed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>resolution for the issues.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The three issues (i006, i008 and i009) discussed on the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>last conf-call
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>(7/21) are currently waiting for a clear statement of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>requirements from
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>their owners. Let us carry the discussion of these 
> issues on the 
> >>>>>>>mailing list until their requirements are clearly hashed out.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>>>Sanjay
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> 


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