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Subject: Re: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for discussionon the 7/28 conf-call


Another +.1
-Anish
--

Marc Goodner wrote:
> +1
> 
> Or would that be +.1?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:10 PM
> To: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for
> discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
> 
> In the meantime we have to call it *something* so let's assume that
> there will be no protocol changes and call it "1.1" for now with the
> understanding that we can change our minds and call it "2.0" if it turns
> out that we needed to change the protocol.
> 
> - g
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Anish Karmarkar [mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com] 
>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:47 PM
>>To: Gilbert Pilz
>>Cc: Marc Goodner; ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
>>Subject: Re: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of 
>>issues for discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
>>
>>+1 to 1.1 if no big protocol change, 2.0 if there is a 
>>protocol change.
>>
>>-Anish
>>--
>>
>>Gilbert Pilz wrote:
>>
>>>Since I am the only one arguing for "1.0" I think I can bring us to 
>>>consensus by withdrawing my argument. I agree it should be 
>>
>>"1.1" (if 
>>
>>>we don't touch the protocol) and "2.0" (if we change the protocol).
>>>
>>>- g
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Anish Karmarkar [mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com]
>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:46 PM
>>>>To: Marc Goodner
>>>>Cc: Gilbert Pilz; ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>Subject: Re: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of 
>>
>>issues for 
>>
>>>>discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
>>>>
>>>>Marc Goodner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>First off the contributed versions of the specifications
>>>>
>>>>were clearly
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>marked 1.0. Any output should be at least 1.1.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I must have missed that on the contributions. I was looking at:
>>>>http://specs.xmlsoap.org/ws/2005/02/rm/ws-reliablemessaging.pdf
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for pointing it out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Given the history/confusion around reliable messaging
>>>>
>>>>(lower case),
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm afraid the distinction between *OASIS* WS-RM and the
>>>>
>>>>other version
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>of WS-RM would be lost to most folks who are not standards wonks."
>>>>>
>>>>>That is exactly why the name of the specs should stay the
>>>>
>>>>same. People
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>think of this as lower case "reliable messaging", not "reliable 
>>>>>exchange". The name has immense value that should not be
>>>>
>>>>underestimated.
>>>>
>>>>I'm not arguing for/against whether the name should be the 
>>
>>same, here.
>>
>>>>As you know my colleagues from Oracle have already stated their 
>>>>opinion on the TC ML ;-) All I'm saying is that if we keep 
>>
>>the ws-rm 
>>
>>>>name then it should be something > 1.0, which, as you have stated 
>>>>earlier, agree.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Anish Karmarkar [mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com]
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:06 PM
>>>>>To: Gilbert Pilz
>>>>>Cc: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>Subject: Re: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of
>>>>
>>>>issues for
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
>>>>>
>>>>>AFAIK, the proprietary specification WS-ReliableMessaging (all its
>>>>>versions) were using dates (rather than version numbers). We are 
>>>>>leaning
>>>>>
>>>>>towards using version numbers (modulo the discussion on
>>>>
>>>>issue i014 on
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the TC ML). Version 1.0 is typically associated with the
>>>>
>>>>1st version
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>of the spec/product.
>>>>>
>>>>>Within OASIS there have been two TCs (WSRM and WS-RX)
>>>>
>>>>chartered to do
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>something very, very similar; one of those TCs is called
>>>>
>>>>'Web Services
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Reliable Messaging'. There is already a lot of confusion
>>>>
>>>>around this. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(I
>>>>>
>>>>>always get comments from folks saying -- I can never
>>>>
>>>>remember which is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>which).
>>>>>
>>>>>It is true that the file names
>>>>
>>>>'wsreliablemessaging-1.0-spec-os.pdf' 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>'wsreliablemessaging-1.0-spec-os.pdf' are different and so are the 
>>>>>namespaces/boilerplate. But unless you are implementing 
>>
>>the spec or 
>>
>>>>>are involved with the TC, this is not what folks look at
>>>>
>>>>(if you print
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the doc, the file name is not relevant anyway). Given the 
>>>>>history/confusion around reliable messaging (lower case),
>>>>
>>>>I'm afraid
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the distinction between *OASIS* WS-RM and the other version
>>>>
>>>>of WS-RM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>would be lost to most folks who are not standards wonks.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Anish
>>>>>--
>>>>>
>>>>>Gilbert Pilz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hmmmm . . . I have a problem with saying that the version
>>>>
>>>>is "1.1" or
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>"2.0" since, in my mind, a spec is scoped by the 
>>
>>organization that 
>>
>>>>>>produces/publishes/recommends it. This is the first version of the
>>>>>>*OASIS* WS-ReliableMessaging specification. As far as
>>>>
>>>>confusion goes;
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>don't think anyone should have a hard time telling the difference
>>>>>>between:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>wsreliablemessaging-1.0-spec-os.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>ws-reliablemessaging200502.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A quick peek inside either document will tell you which is
>>>>
>>>>which. From
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>protocol level the namespace URIs will tell you which 
>>
>>"version" you
>>
>>>>>are
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>dealing with . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- g
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: Anish Karmarkar [mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com]
>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:46 AM
>>>>>>>To: Gilbert Pilz
>>>>>>>Cc: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of
>>>>
>>>>issues for
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gilbert Pilz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have received some minor feedback on a couple of issues,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>but I don't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>know if I could say we have reached consensus. My general
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>feeling is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>that people don't really care about these issues, so I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>think we should
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>just proceed with the proposals with a few ammendments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>i015: Need "artifactName" values for WS-RM and WS-RM Policy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>documents. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I sent email to 
>>
>>'oasis-member-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org' in an 
>>
>>>>>>>>attempt to clarify what this value should look like, but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>have received
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>no response. Need to change the "productVersion" value to
>>>>
>>>>something
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>that can indicate minor versions (i.e. "1.0").
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I *think* I had send some feedback on the version 
>>
>>numbers, but not 
>>
>>>>>>>sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>IMHO, if we keep the spec name the same we should have a version 
>>>>>>>number  > 1.0 (1.1, 2.0, whatever) to avoid confusion with the 
>>>>>>>submission.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-Anish
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>i016: Need to change the identifiers to reflect the 
>>
>>above change:
>>
>>>>>>>>wsreliablemessaging-1.0-spec-wd-01.*
>>>>>>>>wsrmpolicy-1.0-spec-wd-01.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>i017: URL values need to be co-ordinated with Jamie,
>>>>
>>>>Scott, et. al.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>- g
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>From: Patil, Sanjay [mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com]
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:32 PM
>>>>>>>>>To: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>>>Subject: [ws-rx-editors] FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of 
>>
>>issues for 
>>
>>>>>>>>>discussion on the 7/28 conf-call
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I had meant to post it to the editors list ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>From: Patil, Sanjay [mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com]
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 23:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>>To: wsrx
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: FW: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for discussion
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>on the 7/28
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>conf-call
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I am thinking of scheduling one or more of the issues 14,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>15, 16 and 17
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>for discussion on the 7/28 call. Is there a consensus among
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>the editors
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>about the resolution of these issues. Any suggestions
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>regarding which
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>ones are easy targets and which ones require further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>deliberations by
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>the editors team?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Basically, I am looking for simple issues for scheduling
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>along with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>some of the core design issues and wanted to get a feel from
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>you about
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>which ones are straightforward, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>Sanjay
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: Marc Goodner [mailto:mgoodner@microsoft.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, Jul 25, 2005 13:04 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>To: Patil, Sanjay; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for 
>>
>>discussion on 
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>7/28 conf-call
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Can we also discuss i014 Document names and i016 document
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>identifiers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>to try to get some more of the editorial issues into he
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>pending queue?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: Patil, Sanjay [mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 11:59 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [ws-rx] Proposed list of issues for discussion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>on the 7/28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>conf-call
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Here is a proposed list of issues for discussion on the 7/28
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>conf-call.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>- Issue  i013: Max message number in policy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/do
>>
>>wnload.php
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>/13697/Re
>>>>>>>>>>>liableMessagingIssues.xml#i013
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>- Issue (i018): Is an implementation supporting a smaller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>max message
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>number valid?
>>>>>>>>>>>See the first issue in the email:
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/em
>>
>>ail/archiv
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>es/200507
>>>>>>>>>>>/msg00193.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>- Issue (i019): Sequence termination on Fault  See the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>second issue
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>in the email:
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/em
>>
>>ail/archiv
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>es/200507
>>>>>>>>>>>/msg00193.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I urge the originators of these issues to come prepared for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>describing
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>on the conf-call the motivating requirements as well as the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>proposed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>resolution for the issues.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The three issues (i006, i008 and i009) discussed on the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>last conf-call
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>(7/21) are currently waiting for a clear statement of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>requirements from
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>their owners. Let us carry the discussion of these
>>>>
>>>>issues on the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>mailing list until their requirements are clearly hashed out.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>Sanjay
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
> 



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