RE: [ws-rx-editors] RE: Stable/latest url for issue list

["Marc Goodner" <mgoodner@microsoft.com>]

Inline below.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patil, Sanjay [mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:08 AM
To: Marc Goodner; Robin Cover
Cc: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org; Mary McRae; Jamie Clark; Robin
Cover
Subject: RE: [ws-rx-editors] RE: Stable/latest url for issue list


I am pretty sure Marc and Robin are figuring out a good solution for us,
but I am a bit lost here in the deails. So I am puttig forth my
requirements questions below. Hopefully these are met ...

A> Would there be a stable URL that can be bookmarked?
Yup, that's the idea. And as Robin pointed out is why we can't get a
stable url to symlink to Kavi as then this wouldn't work.

B> Would the TC have access to all the previous versions?
Yup, by linking to the filename-nnn at this location rather than the
symlink of just the filename that would point to the latest.

C> Can the metadata of the latest version (date, notes) be accessed via
the stable URL?
I'm not sure what you mean here. We're not using any metadata in Kavi
now for this file. The date that is displayed in the issue list is part
of the file, I'll make a better point to update that before posting. If
there is other data like that, revision maybe, you want displayed I can
add that to the issue list itself. I enter a summary of what changed to
the automated mail field that goes out, I would continue that for a
manual process.

D> Would there be an email notification sent to the group when a new
version is updated?
I would still send out a notice and summary once I verify the new file
is there. One thing that is nice about this method is that if I were
tweaking schema or correcting a mistake (like wrong owner) that was
brought to my attention I could do so without disturbing the list. Today
if I change the schema or xsl I actually have to change the issue list
as well since that is a latest link only.

Thanks,
Sanjay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc Goodner [mailto:mgoodner@microsoft.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 8:27 AM
> To: Robin Cover
> Cc: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org; Mary McRae; Jamie 
> Clark; Robin Cover
> Subject: [ws-rx-editors] RE: Stable/latest url for issue list
> 
> OK, so the idea of linking from docs.oasis to the Kavi files 
> won't work.
> Oh well, I should have figured or you would have suggested it.
> 
> I'm happy with going forward with -nnn numbering of the files for the
> issue list at http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ 
> 
> I suggest we give it a dry run with the issue list update 
> after today's
> call. I'll post to Kavi and pass the files to Robin as well. 
> We can then
> make a recommendation at next week's call to move to the new location.
> That would give the TC members something to review so they can make an
> informed decision.
> 
> Does anyone here object or should we go ahead with this?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:05 PM
> To: Marc Goodner
> Cc: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org; Mary McRae; Jamie Clark; Robin
> Cover
> Subject: Re: Stable/latest url for issue list
> 
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Marc Goodner wrote:
> 
> > Hey guys.
> > Robin has graciously offered to help get a stable/latest url for the
> > issue list. In discussing this I realized there were some things I
> > shouldn't unilaterally decide on my own on this.
> 
> Marc is referring to an informal/unofficial memo I sent on 10/12
> (copied to Jamie Clark [Staff Contact] and Mary McRae ['Manager of the
> docs-DOT web server' at http://docs.oasis-open.org/], after I noted
> a fourth TC posting documenting the need for a stable/latest URL 
> corresponding to the WS-RX TC's issues list [1].
> 
> Because Kavi creates URIs containing (unpredictable) magic numbers
> of the shape /download.php/14939/MinutesWSRX-101305.htm, we can't
> support (fixed/stable) "latest version" URIs, and we cannot exploit
> aliasing via symbolic links:
> 
> * the magic number or key (e.g. 14939) is actually the only relevant
> part
>   (albeit a crufty technology artifact that has no semantic value)
> * 'download.php' is just the PHP query code
> * the final portion (e.g., MinutesWSRX-101305.htm) is totally
>   superfluous/unnecessary --  you can substitute anything
>   silly in its place (veronicasSecret.png), or nothing at all
> 
> Some of us have little interest trying to build on this Kavi model
> of file naming and document storage.  By contrast, the repository at 
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ is based upon a file system with
> filenames/URIs under our complete control.
> 
> In this context, we can also support the notion of "latest version"
> filename/URI by making use of a symlink, linked to each (successive)
> version, as we have implemented for the XACML References:
> 
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/xacml/xacmlRefs.html  
> ['xacmlRefs.html' is a
> symlink]
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/xacml/references/  [version-specific URIs, 
>   latest in directory is the target of the symlink]
> 
> We can do the same for the WS-RX TC's issues list, e.g., with the
> fixed URI matching your choice, as in [what Marc said]:
> 
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ReliableMessagingIssues.xml
> 
> > The location would be at http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx so we need
> to
> > make the call as to how it is linked to the latest file there.
> > Particularly as there are a number of supporting files like 
> the schema
> > and xsl (which also need stable uris). So my suggestion would be the
> > following (based on Robin's of course).
> > 
> > Get a subdirectory called issues, place all files there and 
> symlink to
> > latest version as the base filename, i.e. 
> ReliableMessagingIssues.xml.
> > So far so good, I don't think any of this is contentious. The
> challenge
> > is we'll need to version the filename, so what are people's opinion?
> > Follow the same convention as the TC docs, i.e. -nn where 
> nn = nn + 1
> > for each revision?
> 
> We can implement whatever you want: -nn works well, or -nnn if you
> think you'll ever get to 100 :-)
> 
> > 
> > Note this is not an automated process. Robin has offered to take on
> the
> > burden of placing these files there whenever they are 
> updated. Which I
> > guess now I see another option. Should we just keep using Kavi and
> setup
> > symlinks to each new version posted there? Would that be possible
> Robin?
> 
> I can ask the IT department (again), but the answer we have received
> more
> than once is that we canNOT make use of symlink in connection 
> with Kavi
> resources.  We could probably use DNS+HTTP redirect from the docs-DOT
> repository (from http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/<whatever> ) but
> that's 
> not a good option: redirect involves a second server request, and the 
> address that's displayed in a Web browser's address window 
> would be the
> versioned URI such as you now have. e.g.,
> 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/14894/Reliab
> leMessagin
> gIssues.xml
> 
> You probably want people to bookmark the fixed/stable URI, but that
> won't happen, as HTTP redirect will leave the Kavi versioned
> URI as the bookmarkable address.  So I don't recommend HTTP redirect
> in this context.
> 
> Apparently we can't get access to a real device on the Kavi 
> file system
> because the 'download.php/<magicNumber>' is masking some horribly
> ugly string that's not meant for human eyes, and not intended as
> a regular user file, etc.
> 
> We are in the process of automating support for "latest version" on
> the docs-DOT repository, and giving TCs the ability to create
> their own files/symlinks on that system.  It will probably be rolled
> out in stages, the first of which would be via SSH/SCP (a kind of
> "secure FTP" which also permits you to create your own symlinks).
> Work in progress.
> 
> I stand by my offer to help in the interim, if you want.
> 
> **Mary/Jamie, please correct this if I've not conveyed things
> accurately.
> 
> Unofficially,
> Robin Cover
> 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Marc g
> 
> [1] TC requests for persistent URL
> 
> [i]
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-rx-editors/200507/msg0
> 0010.html
> July 20, 2005 - "Persistent urls for documents" - I need a persistent
> URL for the issue list for our TC, and ideally any document 
> uploaded to
> the
> document store. The problem is that without a persistent url the old
> links
> will remain in email archives etc. and people will not get the current
> issues list (or other document). This problem gets worse in 
> that I have
> uploaded schemas and xsl that format that list. Those will change less
> often but without persistent urls for those I have a lot more work to
> do to update the issue list.
> 
> [ii]
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-rx-editors/200509/msg0
> 0090.html
> September 28, 2005 - Maybe this was already answered but I don't
> immediately see a response. It is not true that adding a document with
> the same name keeps the url the same. It is actually a huge pain that
> it doesn't, I'd prefer to give a url for a specific version and have
> one be the latest like at W3C but that is not how Kavi works. Kavi
> creates an id for each document revision that becomes part of the url.
> So every time you update a doc there you get a new url, same name or
> not.
> 
> [iii]
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-rx-editors/200509/msg0
> 0020.html
> [September 18, 2005 message responded to by Marc Goodner] "However,
> there is a problem. The document name stays the same. My
> understanding/assumption was that we will have individual URLs and
> identifiers that reflect the version numbers. This is easily solved
> with the cvs, but not here..."
> 
> [iv]
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-rx-editors/200510/msg0
> 0033.html
> Marc Goodner October 12, 2005 "I try to update the issue list 
> soon after
> the minutes come out (with varying success). I will not agree 
> to update
> the issue list this any more often than this as things stand today. I
> actually try not to update it more than this since it always 
> changes the
> URI of the issue list. If we can get a stable URI to the issue list I
> could agree to do incremental updates in addition to the one after the
> call. That would also make it a lot easier to share the responsibility
> so that other editors can move their items from pending to done when
> they update a draft with a resolution without making everyone 
> in the TC
> wonder if they have the latest version of the issue list. So what's
> going on with CVS? Is that our answer for getting a stable URI and
> making this thing easier to update?
> 
>