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Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005


I use VOIP to participate in the concalls. A quick google shows me that
there are a number of different ways I could record our calls (either
using a VOIP client that supports recording or a plug-in that taps into
my systems audio stream). If I can set this up, would the group allow me
to record our concalls?

- g 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Rutt [mailto:tom@coastin.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:53 AM
> To: Lei Jin
> Cc: Jonathan Marsh; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
> 
> Lei Jin wrote:
> 
> >Recording the whole call is great for keeping records, but 
> not so good 
> >if people just want to find out quickly what happened in this call.
> >Perhaps we can have someone go through the recorded call and 
> produce an 
> >accurate summary/minutes of the meeting.
> >  
> >
> To record a telephone call (while also alowing the phone 
> which is doing the recording to participate in the call) 
> requires special
> equipment.   This costs about 150 dollars for the proper 
> equipment for 
> this job.
> 
> I have thought about having a recording as a backup, for when 
> such discrepancies are found between different people's 
> memories of the event.
> 
> However, minute takers can record the important happenings, 
> leaving some of the "not so relevant" details out.  I do not 
> see a recording as taking the place of minutes.
> 
> Tom Rutt
> 
> >Lei
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Jonathan Marsh [mailto:jmarsh@microsoft.com]
> >>Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:47 PM
> >>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
> >>
> >>
> >>Cool, then we could relive the whole call in real time!  That would 
> >>certainly keep comments and corrections to a minimum...  ;-)
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com]
> >>>Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:59 PM
> >>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
> >>>
> >>>+1 to recording the minutes. Writing them down, especially on a
> >>>concall
> >>>where you can't actually see who is talking, is pretty
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>painfull. If we
> >>    
> >>
> >>>recorded the minutes we could pretend to be hip podcasters and all 
> >>>that . . .
> >>>
> >>>- g
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortel.com]
> >>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:53 AM
> >>>>To: Christopher B Ferris; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Basically, person X should be able to ensure that the minutes 
> >>>>reflect what he/she said.
> >>>>
> >>>>Of course, you can solve all the problems by having the minutes 
> >>>>recorded. This also solves the problem of appointing a scribe.
> >>>>
> >>>>Cheers,
> >>>>Abbie
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@us.ibm.com]
> >>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:22 AM
> >>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Ultimately, it is the TC that has responsibility for
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>approving the
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>minutes. If someone requests a change, and the rest of the TC 
> >>>>>disagrees with that change (revisionist history), then IMO
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>it should
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>not be made.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Personally, I would tend to give the benefit of the
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>doubt to the
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>person to whom scribed notes are attributed. Thus far, I
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>haven't seen
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>any changes requested that are inconsistent with my recollection
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>of
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>>what was said on the call.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>As long as the requested changes are recorded on the email
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>list, that
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>should be more than adequate as a record of what was
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>changed. If
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>someone chooses to take exception to a requested change,
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>they should
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>do so on the list so that it can be discussed and reconciled in 
> >>>>>accordance to the TC's wishes during the approval of
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>the minutes.
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>Maybe we should all be prefacing our spoken points during a
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>meeting
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>>with:
> >>>>>"permission
> >>>>>to revise and extend my remarks for the record?" :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Cheers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Christopher Ferris
> >>>>>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
> >>>>>email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
> >>>>>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
> >>>>>phone: +1 508 377 9295
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Abbie Barbir" <abbieb@nortel.com> wrote on 08/19/2005 09:55:06
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>AM:
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>>>Ashok,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>History (views, reasons, etc..) changes(or can be
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>rewritten) (it
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>depends on who is recording it, have you read history books
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>in other
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>countries.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Having an amendment as you describe means whatever the
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>scirbe misheard
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>or misrecoreded will be documented regardless of what X has
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>stated on
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>the call, which should not be the case.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Cheers,
> >>>>>>Abbie
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>From: Ashok Malhotra [mailto:ashok.malhotra@oracle.com]
> >>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:36 AM
> >>>>>>>To: Paul Cotton; Gilbert Pilz
> >>>>>>>Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18
> >>>>>>>              
> >>>>>>>
> >>August 2005
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>>Changing minutes can come close to rewriting
> >>>>>>>              
> >>>>>>>
> >>history. In this
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>>case, it is possible that the scribe misheard or
> >>>>>>>              
> >>>>>>>
> >>misrecorded
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>>Paul's words but, in the general case, someone can assert a 
> >>>>>>>different position to what was taken on the telcon.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I recommend, therefore, that the minutes not be
> >>>>>>>              
> >>>>>>>
> >>changed but an
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>>amendment record be added saying "X has requested the
> >>>>>>>              
> >>>>>>>
> >>>following
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>>>>changes to the minutes ...".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>All the best, Ashok
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>              
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>From: Paul Cotton [mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com]
> >>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 5:12 AM
> >>>>>>>>To: Gilbert Pilz
> >>>>>>>>Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>2005
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>Thanks for taking the minutes.  Here are some
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>proposed changes:
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>1.  Paul: David spoke directly about some discussions
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>that took
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>place during (prior?) the forming of the charter. I
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>wouldn't have
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>permitted this (missed some of this)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Please replace this with:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Paul: David spoke directly about some discussions
> >>>>>>>>>>                    
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>that took
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>place
> >>>>>>>>>>                    
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>prior to the formation of the TC.  I want to make it
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>clear that
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>Microsoft never would have suggested that the charter
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>could be
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>changed since this is known to be against OASIS rules.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>2. >Paul: I'm going to vote against this. It will
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>divert the TCs
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>resources into a non-normative, non-exhaustive doc who's 
> >>>>>>>>applicability to the work of the TC is unclear.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Please replace this with what I put into the Chat
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>dialogue and
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>which I read out:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Paul: I am going to vote against this proposal since it
> >>>>>>>>>                  
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>recommends the
> >>>>>>>>TC work on a non-normative, undecided scope,
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>non-exhaustive
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>>>non-deliverable.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>3. >Paul: I won't disagree with you. I take it you are
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>referring
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>to XQuery? That effort started with a blank slate. This
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>TC started
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>with completed specs as well as interop scenarios. I
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>think this
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>effort is beyond the need for use cases.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Please replace this with the following (I never used the
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>word
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>"completed"):
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Paul: I won't disagree with you. I take it you are
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>referring to
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>XQuery? That effort started with a blank slate. This
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>TC started
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>with well-defined contributed specs as well as interop
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>scenarios.
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>I think this effort is beyond the need for use cases.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>4. >Paul: That would be the URI for the RDL document?
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>(yes). The
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>RDL document would point you at the schema file?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Change "RDL" to "RDDL" everywhere it occurs.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>/paulc
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> >>>>>>>>17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3
> >>>>>>>>Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329 
> >>>>>>>>mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com]
> >>>>>>>>>Sent: August 18, 2005 8:40 PM
> >>>>>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>>>>Subject: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18
> >>>>>>>>>                  
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>August 2005
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>Attached is the draft of the minutes. Please
> >>>>>>>>>                  
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>notify if you
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>>>feel there
> >>>>>>>>is
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>anything missing or incorrect and I'll fix it before I
> >>>>>>>>>                  
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>upload this
> >>>>>>>              
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>document (probably on Monday). I'm sorry for the parts
> >>>>>>>>>                  
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>that
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>simply say
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>(back and forth) but when everyone talks at once it is
> >>>>>>>>>                  
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>very hard to
> >>>>>>>              
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>catch what is being said.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>- g
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>                  
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>                
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>              
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Tom Rutt	email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@us.fujitsu.com
> Tel: +1 732 801 5744          Fax: +1 732 774 5133
> 
> 
> 


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