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Subject: Re: [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: WSRX:AcksTo should not use wsa:AnonymousURI


More background on what happened in the WS-Addressing call.

1) WS-Addressing resolved CR4 [1], which was filed on behalf of WS-RX.
That issue in a nutshell was: 'anon' URL is scoped too narrowly to 
reply-to/fault-to ERP and that WS-RX needed a broader definition to 
allow 'anon' AcksTo and not have to define new things.
It was resolved to make all EPRs with 'anon' address values mean the 
'back-channel'.

2) Subsequently CR15 [2] was filed and resolved. CR 15 removed the 
changes inserted as a result of CR4. CR 15 resolution resulted in 
defining what 'anon' meant in the context of SOAP 1.1 and SOAP 1.2 in 
separate sections.

3) When this (2 above) was discovered I filed a new issue [3]. 
Essentially saying -- WTF.

4) On today's call we discussed what all this meant and the WS-RX 
specific usecase. On the call a few people stated that their 
understanding of 'anon' meant the back-channel for ***that particular 
message exchange*** not any message exchange. Please note that this is 
not stated in the WS-Addr specs today. What is in the specs today, to 
answer Doug's question, (both WS-Addr and WSRX) does not contradict each 
other or prevent WSRX from using the 'anon' value for the address 
component of AcksTo EPR (except for opinions in the WS-Addr WG that say 
that 'anon' does not mean any back-channel in any message exchange 
within a sequence).

Specifically, the concern is:
If 'anon' means any backchannel then this is problematic for interop. 
Consider the scenario where, it is a regular (non WSRX) req-res and the 
client sets the reply-to to 'anon' EPR. If 'anon' does not mean the 
back-channel for *that* message exchange then it is OK for the service 
to not send the response in the HTTP response (and say that it is 
conformant) but send the response in some subsequent request -- that 
would not be good.

The suggestion that was kicked around was:
scope 'anon' EPRs to mean the back-channel for the same message 
exchange. If specs like WSRX need a way to express AcksTo EPR denoting 
the any/all backchannels for any/all messages within that Sequence then 
WSRX should define a new URI for the address value (say 
http://www.oasis-open.org/.../anon-acksTo) in the EPR and use it. 
Personally, I don't think this restricts WSRX in anyway (we'll have to 
define a new URL though) and allows us to do exactly what we are doing 
today. Of course this does impact existing impls.

-Anish
--

[1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/addr/cr-issues/#cr4
[2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/addr/cr-issues/#cr15
[3] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/addr/cr-issues/#cr23

Christopher B Ferris wrote:
> 
> I would not have thought that it was limited in this manner. Nor do I 
> think that it should be. Maybe I need to lurk on the WS-A calls:-)
> 
> I'd like to understand the architectural rationale given for such a 
> constraint.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Christopher Ferris
> STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
> email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
> blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?blog=440
> phone: +1 508 377 9295
> 
> "Yalcinalp, Umit" <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com> wrote on 02/20/2006 06:58:21 PM:
> 
>  > IMHO, it does not, but that is my opinion :-)
>  >  
>  > Having said that, there was quite a long discussion on this today at
>  > the WS-A concall.
>  > Some members of the wg (myself NOT included) believe that  the
>  > definition of anonymous only applies to the single MEP and hence it
>  > would not apply to acksTo.
>  >  
>  > --umit
>  >  
>  >
>  > From: Doug Davis [mailto:dug@us.ibm.com]
>  > Sent: Monday, Feb 20, 2006 3:35 PM
>  > To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>  > Subject: Re: [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: WSRX:AcksTo should not use 
> wsa:AnonymousURI
> 
>  >
>  > Tom - can you provide a pointer to where in WSA it limits its use as
>  > you describe (single MEP exchange)?
>  > thanks
>  > -Doug
>  >
>  >
> 
>  >
>  > Tom Rutt <tom@coastin.com>
>  > 02/20/2006 06:11 PM
>  >
>  > Please respond to
>  > tom
>  >
>  > To
>  >
>  > wsrx <ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org>
>  >
>  > cc
>  >
>  > Subject
>  >
>  > [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: WSRX:AcksTo should not use wsa:AnonymousURI
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > NEW ISSUE: wsrm:acksTo should not use wsa:AnonymousURK
>  >
>  > Problem statement:
>  >
>  > The wsa:anonymousURI is defiined in WS addressing for use in a single
>  > MEP exchange.
>  >
>  > What we really need in wsrm:acksTo is a uri which has the intended
>  > semantics:
>  >
>  > "return the wsrm:acknolwedgment soap header in the underlying response
>  > to any soap request which contains a wsrm defined soap header with
>  > this sequenceID."
>  >
>  > This is really quite specialized semantics, and should be defined with a
>  > wsrm: specific URI.
>  >
>  > Proposal:
>  >
>  > Define a wsrm specific URI which has the desired semantics for use in
>  > the wsrm:acksTo URI.
>  >
>  > --
>  > ----------------------------------------------------
>  > Tom Rutt                 email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@us.fujitsu.com
>  > Tel: +1 732 801 5744          Fax: +1 732 774 5133
>  >
>  >


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