Re: [ws-rx] Issue 129: Define "discard"

[Doug Bunting <Doug.Bunting@Sun.COM>]

My concern is both

    * effectively re-opening i106 and re-introducing more use of the
      term "deliver"
    * introducing an unnecessary, otherwise-unspecified, and untestable
      separation between the RMD and the AD; this is an implementation
      issue we shouldn't be prescribing

"Discard" should really mean the target application will, however it and 
the RMD are implemented, just doesn't process the message if it falls 
into one of the classes described below.

thanx,
    doug

On 15/06/06 12:38, Durand, Jacques R. wrote:
>
> Although expressing these defs in terms of delivery” would be very 
> explicit, it reintroduces a notion of contract between RMD and AD 
> which would be odd here if there is no other mention of delivery in 
> the specification (even if only a general statement on the duty to 
> “deliver” according to some external DA).
>
>  
>
> If a clear correlation between “delivery” and the values of this 
> element need be established, that seems to fall under an out-of-bound 
> agreement (like for DAs), and does not belong to this spec.
>
>  
>
> So I propose:
>
>  
>
> /wsrm:CreateSequenceResponse/wsrm:IncompleteSequenceBehavior
> This optional element, if present, specifies the behavior that the RM 
> Destination will exhibit
> upon the closure, or termination, of an incomplete sequence. It should 
> be taken as a hint and does not entail any commitment from the RMD 
> unless associated with an out-of-bound agreement or policy.
>
> A value of “DiscardEntireSequence” indicates that none of the messages 
> for the sequence will
> be processed further by the RM Destination if the sequence is closed, 
> or terminated, when there are one
> or more gaps in the final SequenceAcknowledgement
>
> A value of “DiscardFollowingFirstGap” indicates that messages in the 
> sequence beyond the first
> gap will  not be processed further by the RM Destination when there 
> are one or more gaps in the
> final SequenceAcknowledgement.
>
> The default value of “NoDiscard” indicates that all acknowledged 
> messages in the sequence will be
> processed further by the RM Destination.
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Bob Freund-Hitachi [mailto:bob.freund@hitachisoftware.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 13, 2006 4:37 AM
> *To:* Doug Davis; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> *Subject:* RE: [ws-rx] Issue 129: Define "discard"
>
>  
>
> I don’t like the idea of introducing deliver again.  I106 besides this 
> text was all about expunging the “deliver” word and instead 
> substituting the concept of “transfer”
>
> Discard seems perfectly fine to me since the protocol is concerning 
> transfer and not delivery.
>
> As an alternative, you might consider “messages will be dropped with 
> no further processing” or some such.  But PLEASE keep delivery out of 
> the text.
>
> Thanks
>
> -bob
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Doug Davis [mailto:dug@us.ibm.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2006 12:50 PM
> *To:* ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> *Subject:* RE: [ws-rx] Issue 129: Define "discard"
>
>  
>
>
> I like the idea of just getting rid of the term "discard", so how 
> about this (note I added "terminate" to the text too):
>
> /wsrm:CreateSequenceResponse/wsrm:IncompleteSequenceBehavior
> This optional element, if present, specifies the behavior that the RM 
> Destination will exhibit
> upon the closure, or termination, of an incomplete sequence.
>
> A value of “DiscardEntireSequence” indicates that none of the messages 
> for the sequence will
> be delivered by the RM Destination if the sequence is closed, or 
> terminated, when there are one
> or more gaps in the final SequenceAcknowledgement
>
> A value of “DiscardFollowingFirstGap” indicates that messages in the 
> sequence beyond the first
> gap will  not be delivered by the RM Destination when there are one or 
> more gaps in the
> final SequenceAcknowledgement.
>
> The default value of “NoDiscard” indicates that all acknowledged 
> messages in the sequence will be
> delivered by the RM Destination.
>
>
> thanks
> -Doug
>
>
> *"Marc Goodner" <mgoodner@microsoft.com>*
>
> 06/09/2006 11:39 AM
>
> 	
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> To
>
> 	
>
> Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, <ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org>
>
> cc
>
> 	
>
>  
>
> Subject
>
> 	
>
> RE: [ws-rx] Issue 129: Define "discard"
>
>  
>
>  
>
> 	
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> Doug,
>  
> This seems wordier than necessary.  The text added for 
> DiscardEntireSequence does not use the definition you added for 
> discard at all. The other two values seem like they would benefit from 
> simply changing the word discard to not deliver.
>  
> I don’t think it is necessary to prepend “note” to the sentence added 
> below or “quote” any of the words in this proposal.
>  
> *From:* Doug Davis [mailto:dug@us.ibm.com] *
> Sent:* Thursday, June 08, 2006 12:03 PM*
> To:* ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org*
> Subject:* [ws-rx] [NEW ISSUE] Define "discard"
>  
>
> Title: Define "discard"
>
> Description/Justification:
> In WD13.pdf section 3 - line 308++ - should we define "discard" - its not
> clear to me that we mean the discarded messages will NEVER (and have
> never) be delivered to the AD, instead of just "from now on the RMD
> won't deliver them".
>
> Target: wsrm spec
>
> Type: design
>
> Proposal:
>
> Modify the text for IncompleteSequenceBehavior to be (new stuff in bold):
> (Chris/Bob is this new stuff consistent with what you guys wanted?)
>
> /wsrm:CreateSequenceResponse/wsrm:IncompleteSequenceBehavior
> This optional element, if present, specifies the behavior that the RM 
> Destination will exhibit upon the
> closure of an incomplete sequence.  *For the purposes of defining the 
> values used, the term
> 'discard' refers to the RM Destination never delivering a particular 
> message to the AD.*
>
> A value of “DiscardEntireSequence” indicates that the entire sequence 
> will be discarded by the RM
> Destination if the sequence is closed when there are one or more gaps 
> in the
> SequenceAcknowledgement/Final. *Note, this means that the RM 
> Destination will not deliver any* *
> messages to the AD until the final SequenceAcknowledgement is 
> determined and there are no
> gaps in it.*
>
> A value of “DiscardFollowingFirstGap” indicates that messages in the 
> sequence beyond the first gap will
> be discarded by the RM Destination when there are one or more gaps in the
> SequenceAcknowledgement/Final.
>
> The default value of “NoDiscard” indicates that no acknowledged 
> messages in the sequence will be
> discarded by the RM Destination.
>