Re: [ws-sx] Re: [TC Admin] RE: [ws-sx] Groups - WS-SX Telecon cancelled- please vote on ballot for Examples

["Rich.Levinson" <rich.levinson@oracle.com>]

Hi Tony,

I do not believe the minutes were in error; they state that we would vote in 2 weeks at
next meeting.

As a result of

1. submitting the updated doc on Oct 13:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-sx/201010/msg00002.html
which was based on and a note included in the minutes of the
Oct 13 TC meeting
(again, item 5):
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-sx/201010/msg00003.html

2. and having been thru out of band discussions w TC-Admin to get clarity on
the process of restoring RFC 2119 section to the spec,
where the above-mentioned "out of band discussion" was to address
action item from the Sep 15 TC meeting (item 5, as well):
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-sx/201009/msg00007.html
which was to contact TC-Admin to get this clarification.

3. At this point I forwarded the doc update announcement to TC-Admin
to make sure that the changes requested by TC-Admin were ok with
TC-Admin, in order to avoid the possibilities of multiple iterations
of TC votes and edits to meet the requirements of the July 16 requests
for change by TC-Admin:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-sx/201007/msg00005.html
i.e. there are 8 specific TC-Admin requests, some of which are
multi-part and it does not seem to make sense that getting closure
w TC-Admin on this set of requests would require a TC vote for
each change, esp. since the changes are requested by TC-Admin
and not the TC itself.

4. TC-Admin indicated the changes were ok.

I expect that it is possible that the process itself may have an ambiguity,
in that if the TC approves a set of submitted changes to the doc and that
doc is submitted to TC-Admin for a ballot, and TC-Admin comes back
w requested template-related changes, as I believe was the case with the
Jul 16 TC-Admin requests, then there really are no "substantive" changes
to the body of the doc that the TC needs to consider, and that the TC is
then, in effect, voting on whether the TC-Admin changes were applied
correctly, which the TC probably is not logically in a position to do.

So, imo, the minutes are correct, and that it is possible that because the
changes were all based on TC-Admin requests, that possibly the vote
that was held at the TC meeting of Jun 9 (item 4):
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-sx/201006/msg00010.html

might be considered sufficiently operative to warrant a ballot, and that
the vote ref'd in the Oct 13 minutes is an unnecessary duplication of
the Jun 9 vote (at least based on the above reasoning).

As I indicated in prev email, I am fine w whatever the TC wants to do,
but imo, every effort has been made to precisely follow the process.

However, I think there may be a slight ambiguity in the process as
to whether a doc voted to ballot, which then has template-related
changes requested by TC-Admin, requires another vote to ballot,
if the only changes are in response to the TC-Admin requested
changes. Furthermore, I think it is not well-defined as to the process
to get closure from TC-Admin on those requested changes w/o
having to iterate thru a TC vote for each step to get that closure.

Bottom line: based on current situation, I believe ambiguity in process
as described above enables both the minutes to be correct as well
as the ballot having been started, but it is ultimately up to the TC
as to how to proceed.

    Thanks,  
    Rich




Anthony Nadalin wrote:

180155C5EA10854997314CA5E063D18FE518E3@TK5EX14MBXC117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com" type="cite">

A vote was called for in the minutes from 10/13 to happen in 2 weeks, but the meeting was cancelled, no one posted to the list that the minutes were in error

 

From: Mary McRae [mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 10:32 AM
To: david.staggs@va.gov
Cc: ws-sx@lists.oasis-open.org; tc-admin@oasis-open.org
Subject: [ws-sx] Re: [TC Admin] RE: [ws-sx] Groups - WS-SX Telecon cancelled - please vote on ballot for Examples

 

Hi David,

 

  A vote had already been taken to send for ballot; the additional vote was required to accept putting back in the normative reference to RFC 2119. I don't see any need for an additional ballot to submit yet again, but if that's the TC's wishes, they are more than welcome to proceed.

 

Regards,

 

Mary

 

 

 

 

On Oct 27, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Staggs, David (SAIC) wrote:

All

 

I agree with Tony, the minutes must show a vote was taken to send this to ballot.  In fact the 13 Oct minutes show the vote would be taken this week.  I’m surprised the TC admins did not require the record of the vote in the minutes before proceeding.  Am I missing something?

 

Regards,

David

David Staggs, JD, CISSP (SAIC)
Veterans Health Administration
Chief Health Informatics Office
Standards and Interoperability
Office: 858 433 1473

---

From: Anthony Nadalin [mailto:tonynad@microsoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 11:50 AM
To: ashok.malhotra@oracle.com
Cc: Rich.Levinson; klawrenc@us.ibm.com; ws-sx@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [ws-sx] Groups - WS-SX Telecon cancelled - please vote on ballot for Examples

 

My understanding is that we did not have a vote to proceed with this vote, that was to happen this week and the meeting was cancelled, so this is not proper procedure

 

From: ashok malhotra [mailto:ashok.malhotra@oracle.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:37 AM
To: Anthony Nadalin
Cc: Rich.Levinson; klawrenc@us.ibm.com; ws-sx@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [ws-sx] Groups - WS-SX Telecon cancelled - please vote on ballot for Examples

 

Sorry, Tony!  I don't think there is anything to talk about.  Let's proceed with the ballot.

All the best, Ashok

On 10/27/2010 7:39 AM, Anthony Nadalin wrote:

This seems to be a change of plans from what the TC had agreed upon, I suggest that the ballot be cancelled and we talk about this as planned at the next meeting

 

From: Rich.Levinson [mailto:rich.levinson@oracle.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:48 AM
To: klawrenc@us.ibm.com; ws-sx@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [ws-sx] Groups - WS-SX Telecon cancelled - please vote on ballot for Examples

 

To Voting Members (for action):

TC-Admin has started the ballot to approve the examples doc. Please vote:
    "Approve WS-Security Policy Examples as a Committee Specification"

We had originally planned to discuss further at this week's meeting, however,
TC-Admin said the doc was ready for the ballot, given the sequence of steps
(tc email records) that it had gone thru, so the ballot was started.

Links copied below for convenience, since the original does not go to the ws-sx list,
and people may not notice the email (which happened to me and others last time).

    Thanks,
    Rich

-------- Original Message --------

Subject:	Groups - oasis - New ballot "Approve WS-Security Policy Examples as a Committee Specification"
Date:	27 Oct 2010 05:22:03 -0000
From:	workgroup_mailer@lists.oasis-open.org
To:	rich.levinson@oracle.com

 

OASIS Web Services Secure Exchange (WS-SX) TC member,

A new ballot has been presented to OASIS Web Services Secure Exchange (WS-SX) TC.

To vote on this ballot, go here:

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-sx/ballot.php?id=1962

Please DO NOT REPLY to this email; instead, vote using the above link.

The text of this ballot is as follows:

---

"Approve WS-Security Policy Examples as a Committee Specification"

Shall WS-Security Policy Examples CD04 dated 13 October 2010 be approved as a Committee Specification by the OASIS Web Services Secure Exchange (WS-SX) TC? 

Requires Special Majority Vote to approve 

http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-sx/security-policy/examples/ws-sp-usecases-examples.html

- Yes

- No

- Abstain

---

The ballot closes Wednesday, 3 November 2010 @ 23:45 ET.  Please vote before then by visiting:

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-sx/ballot.php?id=1962

Thank you,

OASIS Open Administration

klawrenc@us.ibm.com wrote:

Cancelling the call this week as I have to have a medical procedure.

Let's plan on having a call in two weeks.

Kelvin

 -- Kelvin Lawrence

WS-SX Telecon has been cancelled by Kelvin Lawrence

Date:  Wednesday, 27 October 2010

Time:  07:00am - 09:00am PT

Event Description:

Agenda:

Minutes:

This event is one in a list of recurring events.

Other event dates in this series:

Wednesday, 06 January 2010, 07:00am to 09:00am PT

Wednesday, 20 January 2010, 07:00am to 09:00am PT

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Wednesday, 22 December 2010, 07:00am to 09:00am PT

View event details:

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-sx/event.php?event_id=26025

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