Re: [ws-tx] optional features means optional tests?

[Ian Robinson <ian_robinson@uk.ibm.com>]

Per the resolution to i047: "A coordination service that supports an
Activation service MUST support the Completion protocol." The Activation
service has always been optional.

This is, of course, a spec statement. From an AT interop perspective, the
majority of the tests focussed on the madatory 2PC protocol but there are 2
scenarion that include the Activation and Completion protocols. For AT, I
don't believe we categorized interop scenarios as "optional" or not.

Regards,
Ian


                                                                           
             Mark Little                                                   
             <mark.little@jbos                                             
             s.com>                                                     To 
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             20/09/2006 17:51                                           cc 
                                                                           
                                                                   Subject 
                                       Re: [ws-tx] optional features means 
                                       optional tests?                     
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           




I don't believe we came to any agreement on this as a TC. As we
approach BA interop I'd at least like to know what is and is not
required/mandated. Any chance we can discuss this on the next call?

Mark.


On 6 Sep 2006, at 13:42, Mark Little wrote:

>
> On 6 Sep 2006, at 11:51, Alastair Green wrote:
>
>> Completion protocol is not mandatory under any circumstances.
>> Activation Service is not mandatory under any circumstances.
>
>
> The change from mandatory to optional occurred during that interop.
> phase. If it had been earlier, then I would be arguing for the same
> point there.
>
>>
>> In my view, to repeat, the point of these interop tests is to
>> prove (very roughly) -- better, to give some confidence -- that
>> the words in the spec are capable of being rendered into
>> interoperable software.
>
> But that should not mean that the tests themselves are mandatory.
> The distinction between optional and mandatory elements in a
> specification and how they are handled by optional and mandatory
> tests in used well in W3C. Are you suggesting that those
> specifications/standards are not interoperable?
>
>>
>> Besides, how hard is it to do this? Support for mixed outcome at a
>> wire level is trivial.
>
> Fine, but it shouldn't make the interop. tests mandatory. All that
> does is make it easier for those companies who wish to participate
> in those tests to do so.
>
> What I want is for us to agree that optional features are covered
> by optional tests. Then we can have a discussion about how many
> companies we should ideally have to cover optional features in
> order to give us a degree of confidence. I refer back to the W3C
> approach.
>
> Mark.
>
>
>>
>> Alastair
>>
>> Mark Little wrote:
>>> We need to describe the tests for all features if we want to show
>>> interoperability for those features. However, and the specific
>>> case I have in mind is mixed outcome, which is not mandatory
>>> under any circumstances, it shouldn't be a requirement for anyone
>>> in the TC to test against because then it's effectively a
>>> mandatory implementation (at least as far as the TC work is
>>> concerned). It does not make sense to have optional features
>>> covered by mandatory tests. Likewise, it does not make sense to
>>> have optional features that aren't tested by at least 2 different
>>> implementations, but that's a separate issue.
>>>
>>> Mark.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5 Sep 2006, at 14:41, Alastair Green wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unlike in WS-AT, where optional Completion protocol was a
>>>> mandatory interop test. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Not sure of final outcome from F2F, but this point was
>>>> discussed, and it was pointed out that in AT this approach was
>>>> not taken.
>>>>
>>>> In my view the point of interop tests is not conformance, but to
>>>> prove that the specs are workable -- a task which applies to all
>>>> parts.
>>>>
>>>> Yrs,
>>>>
>>>> Alastair
>>>>
>>>> Mark Little wrote:
>>>>> I'm assuming that any optional features in the specification
>>>>> that are covered by tests in the interoperability scenarios
>>>>> inherently means that those tests are also optional? Certainly
>>>>> in W3C interoperability testing, only mandatory features have
>>>>> to be tested.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>