Re: [wsbpel-abstract] where is the dividing line?

[Nickolas Kavantzas <nickolas.kavantzas@oracle.com>]

Kind of interesting that you are picking #3 as the use-case for removing, based on time constraints.

Why then not remove use-case #1 or #2 based on time constraints? I am not really sure how we can
make this decision.


By talking to Oracle's customers, we are hearing very strong feedback for supporting use-case #3.


Ugo Corda wrote:

> Forgot to give my reasoning: time constraints for completion of our TC
> work.
>
> Ugo
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ugo Corda
> > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:37 AM
> > To: Rossomando, Philip; Monica J. Martin
> > Cc: wsbpel-abstract@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: RE: [wsbpel-abstract] where is the dividing line?
> >
> >
> > I would remove #3 for now, and focus on the "external
> > description" cases. If in the end it turns out that whatever
> > we come up with can also apply (without ANY additional work
> > on our part) to case 3, all the better.
> >
> > Ugo
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rossomando, Philip [mailto:Philip.Rossomando@unisys.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM
> > > To: Monica J. Martin
> > > Cc: wsbpel-abstract@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: RE: [wsbpel-abstract] where is the dividing line?
> > >
> > >
> > > Good point Monica: Let's try to build a list. We'll add and
> > > Then subtract from it until we reach consensus:
> > >
> > > My candidates are:
> > >                             1. The Customer: You are trying to
> > > convince                                       you understand
> > > his/her business
> > >                             2. Partners in the UDDI manner suggested
> > > by SAP:                                Here is how I behave. If you
> > > want to do business                                    with
> > me, this is what
> > > you will have to do.
> > >                             3. Fellow developers/BPEL Executable
> > > coders: Well
> > >                                John, here is the business process as
> > > I                                      understand it. You add the
> > > details. I've added                                    some
> > hints/ideas but
> > > you fill in the blanks.
> > >
> > > Others?
> > >
> > > Now the rules of the game are. Add something but say why.
> > > Remove something But explain your reasoning.
> > >
> > > Phil Rossomando
> > >
> > > Research Director, Technology & Architecture
> > > Unisys Corporation
> > > Unisys Way, B-330
> > > Blue Bell, PA 19424 USA
> > > Philip.rossomando@unisys.com
> > > 215-986-3998
> > > FAX 413-0215-2043
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Monica J. Martin [mailto:Monica.Martin@Sun.COM]
> > > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 12:42 PM
> > > To: Rossomando, Philip
> > > Cc: Martin Chapman; wsbpel-abstract@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: Re: [wsbpel-abstract] where is the dividing line?
> > >
> > > Rossomando, Philip wrote:
> > >
> > > >Martin:
> > > >
> > > >The point is I don't think it's a single dividing line.
> > > >As you mentioned there are different audiences. What I
> > Personally see
> > > >is a layered structure with a movement From very abstract
> > to les and
> > > >less abstract until you Are at an executable BPEL level.
> > > >
> > > >At the highest abstraction
> > > >Level you may not only have syntactic abstraction but
> > > >Also semantic abstraction. Sort of writing on the back of
> > > >A napkin. At the next level semantic abstraction may become
> > > More crisp
> > > >but syntax may still be open to say leaving Things out. This
> > > would be
> > > >like the total implicit approach Mentioned by Satish. This
> > > level may be
> > > >where partner communication Takes place.
> > > >
> > > >At the next level lower you may start to add place
> > > >Holders. Sort of sign posts for coders. Here I would like
> > > >To see something. You might even add comments with suggestions To a
> > > >coder sort of constraining expectations. Finally at the
> > Lowest level
> > > >you may have full blown executable BPEL.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > mm1: Phil, I think we could provide some parameters on the level and
> > > extent of abstraction if we could agree on the audience we
> > > are targeting
> > >
> > > (which hones our uses cases, business requirements, etc).
> > >
> > >
> >