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Subject: RE: My Abstract & Executable BPEL Processes Unified note [was Re: [wsbpel-abstract] Strawman for discussion]


Nick,

 

We did not identify compelling examples for opaque attributes (and Satish's summary correctly points that out). Would you please comment my concerns explained below?

 

Excerpt from your document:

 

·        Opaque attributes are needed

·        In a receive activity for defining input variables. If we omit an input variable in an Abstract BPEL process definition then it means that there is no inputVariable in this receive. If an Opaque placeholder is used for the input variable, then it means that the process designer has to specify this variable. Hence there is no ambiguity of deliberate omission because the attribute is not needed versus implicit missing of details that need to be filled in.

Attribute inputVariable of a receive step (which is specified within an abstract process) may be omitted if it is not used in any subsequent expression, activity, etc. So, it must be specified if it is used. I do not understand how opaque attributes help in this case.

·        In a BPEL activity with an optional attribute, which has a default value, if we omit that attribute in an Abstract BPEL process definition then it means the default value of that attribute will be used.  If an Opaque placeholder is used for the attribute, then it means that the process designer has to specify this value. Hence there is no ambiguityof whether the default value should be used or an explicit value needs to be specified.

 

Wouldn't it make the specification much simpler if we defined a particular attribute as mandatory and allowed only two values (e.g. "yes" or "no".)? Defining an optional attribute with a default value is just a convenience. If we think that this may lead to ambiguity then we should avoid this designing approach. In that case we do not need yet another BPEL element/attribute/value.

 

Can you list other examples that call for opaque attributes?

 

 

Regarding issue 99: Abstract processes cannot be instantiated and executed - therefore "lifecycle" activities play little or no role for abstract processes. Also the BPEL specification is saying that BPEL executable processes must contain at least one "start activity". So opaque activity is not really necessary in this case (issue 99) - the specification is clear about places which need to be further specified (or concretised) when mapping an abstract process to an executable process.

 

Regards,

 

Ivana

-----Original Message-----
From: Nickolas Kavantzas [mailto:nickolas.kavantzas@oracle.com]
Sent: Donnerstag, 26. August 2004 19:04
To: Satish Thatte
Cc: wsbpel-abstract@lists.oasis-open.org; Rania Khalaf; Trickovic, Ivana
Subject: My Abstract & Executable BPEL Processes Unified note [was Re: [wsbpel-abstract] Strawman for discussion]

Per Phil's request I am also attaching my 'Abstract & Executable BPEL Processes Unified'
note (that I've sent to Satish 3 weeks back) hoping that we can use these two documents
as the basis of further discussion in the broader group.

--
Nick

Satish Thatte wrote:

Myself and the people on the CC list have had a few exchanges around a proposed joint statement on abstract processes.  We did not have the time to reach convergence, and as Phil pointed out, the full discussion ought to happen in the broader group.  I attach my strawman for further discussion.

The formulation is entirely mine - the CC line is of course at liberty to question and criticize any and all points in my document J

I will unfortunately be out of town this Friday but hope to rejoin the discussion next week.

Satish



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