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Subject: RE: [wsbpel] RE: [spell] Issue - 72 - Proposal to vote
Peter, I would further tune your rephrasing by saying: a) In developing the BPEL language, where reference is made to specifications that are in BP 1.0 scope, the BP 1.0 requirements will normally be followed. Ugo > -----Original Message----- > From: Furniss, Peter [mailto:Peter.Furniss@choreology.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 2:11 AM > To: Ugo Corda; ygoland@bea.com; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: RE: [wsbpel] RE: [spell] Issue - 72 - Proposal to vote > > > Someone (not me) could indeed spend the time to go through BP 1.0a and > work out which of its requirements should apply to the BPEL language, > and propose that list as a detailed resolution of issue 72. > However, I > doubt if it's worth the effort. > > The alternative, which I tried to state in my a), is just to have as a > guideline that we will follow BP 1.0. Then in any future > discussion on a > particular point, if a proposed text is contrary to R1234 (say), then > it's going to take a really well-argued case to use that text. But we > don't need to go trawling through BP 1.0 speculatively - we > can rely on > ourselves as a TC (and potentially the wider community of reviewers of > our drafts) to point out collisions with BP 1.0. > > But perhaps I've over-restricted a), constraining it both to > "underspecified and erroneous" AND making it a guideline, not a rigid > rule with "normally be followed". Would omitting the > "underspecified and > erroneous features", but keeping the "normally ..." cover the point ? > > a) In developing the BPEL language, where reference is made to > specifications that are in BP 1.0 scope, > the BP 1.0 interpretations will normally be followed. > > or leave it. > > or someone can propose the definitive list. > > Peter > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ugo Corda [mailto:UCorda@SeeBeyond.com] > > Sent: 10 November 2003 22:20 > > To: ygoland@bea.com; Furniss, Peter; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: RE: [wsbpel] RE: [spell] Issue - 72 - Proposal to vote > > > > > > Yaron, > > > > The specific example you bring up (R1000) is not a good one > > because it relates to SOAP requirements, while point 'a' > > relates to the BPEL language (which has no explicit > > connection to SOAP). > > > > Besides that, you are making a good point. There are probably > > aspects of BP 1.0 requirements (in those areas that do apply > > to the BPEL language scope) that cannot be classified as > > fixing underspecified or erroneous features (even though I > > don't have any specific example off the top of my head). > > > > My personal answer is that point 'a' would also apply to > > those requirements (and I would agree that, if we take this > > interpretation, point 'a' would have to be better qualified). > > The reason is that point 'a', as I see it, is about the BPEL > > language being consistent with all the interoperability > > requirements of BP 1.0 that fall within the scope of the BPEL > > language itself (mostly WSDL-related requirements). > > > > Ugo > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Yaron Goland [mailto:ygoland@bea.com] > > > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 1:54 PM > > > To: 'Furniss, Peter'; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org > > > Subject: [wsbpel] RE: [spell] Issue - 72 - Proposal to vote > > > > > > > > > I opened BP 1.0a and randomly picked an entry, I got R1000 > > > which restricts which elements may appear in a SOAP fault. > > > > > > Is R1000 a fix for an under specified or erroneous feature in > > > the SOAP spec or an editorial decision by WS-I that > > > additional elements would make it harder to achieve > > interoperability? > > > > > > If the former, then per point 'a', BPEL must follow it, if > > > the later then it is merely a BPEL guideline. The > > > ramifications on interoperability are profound. Who exactly > > > gets to decide what constitutes a fix for an under specified > > > or erroneous feature and what is just an editorial > decision by WS-I? > > > > > > So before this group can vote on point 'a' we need to get > > > clarification as to *exactly* which points in the WS-I spec > > > would be considered requirements for BPEL under point 'a'. > > > > > > I also would propose that we change 'c' to read: All BPEL > > > implementations MUST be configurable such that they will only > > > send and receive messages in a manner compliant with BP 1.0 > > > for those messaging scenarios encompassed by BP 1.0. But, a > > > BPEL implementation MAY allow the BP 1.0 configuration to be > > > disabled, even for scenarios encompassed by BP 1.0. > > > > > > Yaron > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Furniss, Peter [mailto:Peter.Furniss@choreology.com] > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 4:13 AM > > > > To: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > Subject: [wsbpel] Issue - 72 - Proposal to vote > > > > > > > > > > > > Proposed resolution for issue 72: > > > > > > > > > > > > Given that the scope of BP is confined to the specifications it > > > > references, and that BPEL is of wider application: > > > > > > > > a) In developing the BPEL language, where reference is made to > > > > specifications that are in BP 1.0 scope, the BP 1.0 > > > interpretations of > > > > underspecified or erroneous features will normally be followed. > > > > > > > > b) Where use-cases and use-case artifacts are in BP 1.0 > > scope (i.e. > > > > using referenced specifications) they will be BP 1.0 > > compliant, if > > > > possible. > > > > > > > > c) The requirement (or non-requirement) of BP 1.0 > > compliance of BPEL > > > > engines or deployed processes is not affected by their > > use of BPEL. > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > See previous discussion ( > > > > > > > > > http://www.choreology.com/external/WS_BPEL_iss> > ues_list.html#Issue72 > ) > > > > for more explanation. The only change from the proposal for > > > discussion > > > > in > > > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsbpel/200311/msg00018.html is > > > > the addition of "or erroneous" in a). > > > > > > > > > > > > To maximise our chances of getting closure on this before > > > 2004, if the > > > > above is unsatisfactory, please give proposed amendment (or > > > > alternative > > > > text), not just expressions of discomfort. Please! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > Peter Furniss > > > > Chief Scientist, Choreology Ltd > > > > > > > > Cohesions 1.0 (TM) > > > > Business transaction management software for application > > > > coordination > > > > > > > > web: http://www.choreology.com > > > > email: peter.furniss@choreology.com > > > > phone: +44 870 739 0066 <-- new, from 4 August 2003 > > > > mobile: +44 7951 536168 > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from > > > > the roster of the OASIS TC), go to > > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsbpel/members/le > > ave_workgroup.php. > > > > >
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