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Subject: RE: [wsbpel] The sad tail of obtaining licenses for BPEL4WS 1.1mailto:eduardo.gutentag@oasis-open.org

I have had similar problems. I thought I was making good progress with IBM, having reached the Program Director for Intellectual Property and Licensing. She stated that a new RF license was being developed. However, after numerous email and phone conversations that contact went dark about a month ago. Here is the contact info if someone else wants to try. Please share the URL or doc for the license assuming you find it.

Marcia Courtemanche
Program Director
Intellectual Property and Licensing
NOTES:  mcourtem@us.ibm.com
OFFICE:  914-765-4341, TL 251-4341, FAX extension 4420

I have not had any luck with Siebel.


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Ross-Talbot [mailto:steve@enigmatec.net]
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 10:13 AM
To: ws bpel tc
Cc: eduardo.gutentag@oasis-open.org; jeff.mischkinsky@oracle.com;
Subject: [wsbpel] The sad tail of obtaining licenses for BPEL4WS

Dear all,

A sad tail about the of licensing BPEL4WS1.1.

As some of you may remember  the issues of licensing and license 
mechanisms were raised at the start of the TC. We were all assured  
that even though there are 5 authors of the BPEL4WS1.1 specification - 
the base for the TC -  we should not worry. It would all be fine and 
the authors would figure out a way to ensure that those who are 
interested would be able to obtain licenses without any real 

So mid Sept2003 I embarked on license discovery. A little known process 
to obtain the 5 license agreements from the 5 authors of the BPEL4WS1.1 

On the web I managed to get licenses from Microsoft (thanks) and BEA 
(thanks). And within a month from SAP (thanks to them also) too.

IBM and Siebel had no web available licensing (as far as I could tell). 
I sent in a request to IBM late October, having waited passively for 
some information about the licenses from the TC, and (several people 
and emails later) I am still waiting for a license from IBM. The latest 
news, despite the fact that I have an outstanding email into IBM, is 
that a license agreement from them is on the Oasis website (dated June 
2003!). Why was this not pointed out in October you may ask? A case of 
the X-files and standards you may think.

With Siebel the plot thickens. Finally I got to someone (19th November) 
who seemed to know about the license issues. But ... and I know this 
sounds like I made it up .... I finally get a response that says:

	"I should have pointed you to Oasis rather than Diane Jordan at IBM."

Which brings me all the way back to the original email I sent to Diane 
late in October. Now I feel like Bill Murray in "Ground Hog Day".

It is a sad tail of how licenses and standards do not mix.

I am now at a loss as to how to proceed. Seems like we now have a 
deadlock. The TC chairs thinking it is the authors responsibility and 
at least one of the authors thinking it is Oasis's responsibility.

If anyone our there has actually succeeded in getting all 5 license 
agreements could they share the secret of their success with the group 
so that we may all contribute on an equal footing.

As to what I think should be done as a minimum ... it is simple. Oasis 
should own the contact points for such license agreements and the 
authors should sign-up to ensuring that this sort of information is 
sorted out *before* they start a TC so that we can play on a level 
playing field.

Best regards

Steve Ross-Talbot
Chief Scientist Enigmatec Corp.

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