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Subject: Re: [wsbpel] Issue 11 - Creation of Repeating/Optional XML Structures


Edwin,

The "etc" should also include OASIS CAM as a means to assemble
and manage transaction content.

Thanks, DW

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Edwin Khodabakchian" <edwink@collaxa.com>
To: "'Pal Takacsi-Nagy'" <pal@bea.com>; "'Danny van der Rijn'"
<dannyv@tibco.com>
Cc: <wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 3:11 PM
Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Issue 11 - Creation of Repeating/Optional XML
Structures


> Data manipulation is indeed a must have which people usually address by
> calling out (through web service invocation or XPATH function call) to a
> transformation service implemented in XQuery, XSLT, XML Beans, etc.
>
> Usability could be greatly improved through the mechanism Alex is
suggesting
> but it would also introduce a lot of details/issues to be ironed out. So
the
> question is not should we do it or not but should we do it now or wait for
> the next revision of the spec.
>
> Edwin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pal Takacsi-Nagy [mailto:pal@bea.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 11:38 AM
> To: edwink@collaxa.com; 'Danny van der Rijn'
> Cc: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Issue 11 - Creation of Repeating/Optional XML
> Structures
>
> Doesn't not having proper support for data manipulation will result in
> incompatible implementation in BPEL? In can't think of any real life
> workflow that does not have data transformation in it.
> If all vendors have to do it their own way this will compromise the value
of
> the standard IMHO.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edwin Khodabakchian [mailto:edwink@collaxa.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 11:13 AM
> To: 'Danny van der Rijn'
> Cc: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Issue 11 - Creation of Repeating/Optional XML
> Structures
>
> Danny,
>
> There is now doubt that today BPEL is crippled because it only supports
very
> limited data manipulation (data initialization, array/looping, update).
> There is also no doubt that this is a slippery slope.
>
> One option might be to allow tighter integration between BPEL and XQuery
(as
> suggested by Alex Yiu earlier in this forum).
>
> But even that integration work might be out of the scope of the initial
> delivery of the spec as this is something that can be layered on at a
later
> point of time without impacting to our current work.
>
> Edwin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny van der Rijn [mailto:dannyv@tibco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 10:33 AM
> To: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [wsbpel] Issue 11 - Creation of Repeating/Optional XML Structures
>
> At our September F2F, I presented some alternatives for addressing issue
11.
> The alternative were met with some opposition to even addressing the issue
> at all.  In order to get the conversations going again, I'd like to
present
> a very high level view of the pros and cons of addressing the issue.  It
> seems most appropriate to me to begin at this level, before spending any
> more time actually trying to solve the issue.
>
> The issue:  To modify a variable's XML structure, one uses the <assign>
> <from/> <to variable="ncname" part="ncname"? query="queryString"?/>
> </assign> syntax.
>
> "For XPath 1.0, the value of the query attribute MUST be an absolute
> locationPath (with '/' meaning the root of the document fragment
> representing the entire part). It is used to identify the root of a
subtree
> within the document fragment representing the part. The location path MUST
> select exactly one node. If the location path selects zero nodes or more
> than one node during execution, then the standard fault
> bpws:selectionFailure MUST be thrown by a compliant implementation."
>
> What this ends up meaning is that if there is a repeating element that has
N
> instances of the element, the N+1th may not be created.  Additionally, if
> there is an optional element that is not present, it can not be created.
>
> Pro-Issue 11:  There are many use cases where the creation of repeating
> and/or optional elements is required.  A notable one is looping over an
> array of inputs, calling a service on each one, and creating an array of
> outputs.  There are many more.  BPEL would be crippled without this
feature.
>
> Anti-Issue 11:  BPEL has some very primitive data handling capabilities,
but
> should never have full-blown data handling capabilities.  If the language
is
> modified to solve this problem, we are starting down a slippery slope.
What
> will the next data handling addition be?  When will the ocean be boiled?
If
> data handling capabilites beyond what are currently included are needed,
> then simply call out to a data handling/modification service.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of
the
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>
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> php.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of
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>
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> php.
>
>
>
>
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