Re: [wsbpel] Issue 11 - Call for Discussion

["David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>]

FYI,

The OASIS CAM system comes complete with its own
comprehensive context management system that is fully
designed to enable context driven information assembly.

Hint: CAM = Content Assembly Mechanism

I'm just wondering about parallels here - BPEL is completely
dependent on WSDL, a W3C specification, that dictates
many of the functional and operational aspects and massively
influences what BPEL can and cannot do.  But people are
reluctant to make BPEL dependent on external specifications
for parts of its functionality where clearly BPEL has a
chronic need to outsource that and BPEL itself is being
hamstrung by not making that decision clean and simple.

Am I missing something here?

DW.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kristofer Agren" <kagren@pakalert.com>
To: "'Ugo Corda'" <UCorda@SeeBeyond.com>; <edwink@collaxa.com>;
<ygoland@bea.com>; "'Alex Yiu'" <alex.yiu@oracle.com>
Cc: "'Ron Ten-Hove'" <Ronald.Ten-Hove@Sun.COM>; "'Wsbpel@Lists. Oasis-Open.
Org (E-mail)'" <wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Issue 11 - Call for Discussion


>
> How about coming up with some construct that allows for variables to be
> manipulated within a certain context where the variable contents are not
> validated until the end of that context?
>
> Perhaps adding an attribute to the "scope" element that specifies whether
or
> not variable contents are validated within the scope? For example:
>
> <scope name="outerNormalValidatingScope">
> <variable name="test" type="a:type"/>
> <sequence>
> <scope name="modifyTest" validateVariableContent="no">
> <while ..>
> Build variable contents incrementally here
> </while>
> </scope>
> </sequence>
> </scope>
>
> Kristofer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ugo Corda [mailto:UCorda@SeeBeyond.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:39 PM
> To: edwink@collaxa.com; ygoland@bea.com; Alex Yiu
> Cc: Ron Ten-Hove; Wsbpel@Lists. Oasis-Open. Org (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Issue 11 - Call for Discussion
>
> > 3. As pointed out, this is orthogonal to type validation
> > because some use
> > case: {while+invoke+receive+assign} require the incremental
> > build out of documents. It seems that a separate issue should
> > be opened to track validation (which could be addressed by
> > doing validation only on the edges). More generically, any
> > logic that combines sync or async interaction and build out
> > of a document will not be able to be compressed into a single
> > activity, companion language or not.
> >
>
> That's the way I see it too. The validation problem in the
> {while+invoke+receive+assign} loop does not come from the assign itself
> but from the incremental building of the XML typed variable through
> successive loop cycles. No matter what we substitute the assign with,
> the problem remains. The bottom line is that it is only at the
> completion of the loop that it makes sense to validate the variable
> contents.
>
> The only alternative approach seems to be encapsulating the entire loop
> into a separate Web service (with the assumption that whatever we use to
> implement that Web service does not insist in doing validation before
> the end of the loop). But that means that BPEL loses control of the
> detailed operations that occur inside the loop itself, which in many
> cases might not be what is desired.
>
> Ugo
>
>
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