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Subject: Re: [wsbpel] Issue 229 - Proposal for vote



Hi Danny and Assaf,

I also like to get something shorter.
Maybe "compensateChildren" or "compensateInner" ?

I have some neutral (not-so-warm) feeling for "compensateAll". Because 
it may cause its own confusion.  People may think "All" cover the scopes 
of state other than completed (e.g. running and faulted)

Another typical confusion of <compensate  /> that I have seen so far is: 
people (including some TC people) thought it would invoke the 
<compensationHandler> of the same scope level ... It would be nice to 
highlight the "child" or "inner" nature of the new name.


Thanks!


Regards,
Alex Yiu



Assaf Arkin wrote:

> compensateAll?
>
> Danny van der Rijn wrote:
>
>> Sure.  But something shorter, I hope?
>>
>> Satish Thatte wrote:
>>
>> I remain warm (to the idea I mean).
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Yiu [mailto:alex.yiu@oracle.com] Sent: Thursday, December 
>> 15, 2005 1:00 PM
>> To: Danny van der Rijn
>> Cc: chris.keller@active-endpoints.com; 'Dieter Koenig1'; 'ws bpel tc';
>> Alex Yiu; Satish Thatte
>> Subject: Re: [wsbpel] Issue 229 - Proposal for vote
>>
>>
>> Hi Danny and others,
>>
>> I have been thinking of renaming "<compensate />" activity to 
>> something like "<compensateChildScopes/>" to signal the difference 
>> two forms of compensation and avoid confusion, instead of saying a 
>> verbal description
>>
>> like "a compensate activity with no scope attribute"
>>
>> What do you guys think?
>> Based on some past email exchange, Satish is warm to that idea.
>>
>> If you guys are warm to idea, we could incorporate that into one of 
>> compensation related proposal. That is, to instruct editors to do a 
>> global scan on the term "compensate" in the spec to apply changes 
>> appropriate. [Poor editors ... :-( ... including myself ...]
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex Yiu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Danny van der Rijn wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>> While we're wordsmithing, "<compensate/> activity" isn't different 
>> from <compensate scope="Sx"/> -- they're the same activity.  Can we 
>> replace it with "a compensate activity with no scope attribute"?
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> Chris Keller wrote:
>>
>>   
>> Hi Dieter,
>>
>> Ok, here are the two sets of text.  If we adopt your text it didn't 
>> seem to
>> flow right unless it replaces the entire part after the ellipsis, 
>> what do
>> you think.  Is it explicit enough?
>>
>> - Chris
>>
>> End of section 13.3.3
>>
>> Dieter's suggestion:
>>
>> "...User defined fault, compensation, or termination handlers may use
>> <compensate scope="..."> to compensate a specific child scope and/or
>> <compensate/> to compensate all child scopes in default order. Any 
>> repeated
>> attempt to compensate an individual child scope is treated as a
>>     
>> no-op.
>>  
>>
>> The compensate activity should be used by user defined fault, 
>> compensation
>> and termination handlers to invoke child scope compensation.  If a
>>     
>> user
>>  
>>
>> defined fault, compensation or termination handler does not use the
>> compensate activity then child scopes will not be compensated."
>>
>> Alex's suggestion:
>>
>> "...Note that the <compensate/> activity in a fault, compensation or
>> termination handler attached to scope S causes the default-order 
>> invocation
>> of compensation handlers for completed scopes directly nested within 
>> S. The
>> use of this activity can be mixed with any other user-specified
>>     
>> behavior
>>  
>>
>> including the explicit invocation of <compensate scope="Sx"/> for 
>> scope Sx
>> nested directly within S. After an explicit invocation of 
>> compensation for
>> such a scope nested within S, the default-order compensation is still
>> available via the <compensate/> activity. During the default-order
>> compensation, any attempt to compensate a scope which has already
>>     
>> been
>>  
>>
>> explicity compensated is a no-op. On the other hand, if a 
>> <compensate/> is
>> used prior to a <compensate scope="Sx"/> the latter is treated as a 
>> no-op.
>>
>> The compensate activity should be used by user defined fault, 
>> compensation
>> and termination handlers to invoke child scope compensation.  If a
>>     
>> user
>>  
>>
>> defined fault, compensation or termination handler does not use the
>> compensate activity then child scopes will not be compensated."
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dieter Koenig1 [mailto:dieterkoenig@de.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday,
>>     
>>
>>  
>>
>> December 15, 2005 1:22 PM
>> To: chris.keller@active-endpoints.com
>> Cc: alex.yiu@oracle.com; 'ws bpel tc'
>> Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Issue 229 - Proposal for vote
>>
>> Yes, this is what I had in mind ...
>> Kind Regards
>> DK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>
>>  
>>
>>            "Chris 
>> Keller"                                                            
>> <chris.keller@act                                             
>>            ive-endpoints.com                                          
>> To            >                         Dieter 
>> Koenig1/Germany/IBM@IBMDE,                                         
>> <alex.yiu@oracle.com>                           15.12.2005 
>> 19:08                                           cc 
>>                                      "'ws bpel 
>> tc'"                                                            
>> <wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org>                   Please respond 
>> to                                     Subject               
>> chris.keller            RE: [wsbpel] Issue 229 - Proposal   
>>                                      for vote                           
>>     
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>> Hi Dieter,
>>
>> I am not sure which text you are suggesting to replace (or add to)
>>     
>> with
>>  
>>
>> this
>> text. Is it the same text as Alex is suggesting to change?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dieter Koenig1 [mailto:dieterkoenig@de.ibm.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:36 AM
>> To: alex.yiu@oracle.com; chris.keller@active-endpoints.com
>> Cc: 'ws bpel tc'
>> Subject: Re: [wsbpel] Issue 229 - Proposal for vote
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Here is one more ...:
>>
>> User-defined fault handlers, compensation handlers, or termination 
>> handlers
>> may use <compensate scope="..."> to compensate a specific child scope
>> and/or <compensate/> to compensate all child scopes in default order.
>>     
>>
>>  
>>
>> Any
>> repeated attempt to compensate an individual child scope is treated
>>     
>> as a
>>  
>>
>> no-op.
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> DK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>            Alex Yiu
>>            <alex.yiu@oracle.
>>            com>                                                       To
>>
>>     
>> chris.keller@active-endpoints.com
>>  
>>
>>            14.12.2005 22:00                                           cc
>>                                      "'ws bpel tc'"
>>                                      <wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org>, Alex
>>                                      Yiu <alex.yiu@oracle.com>
>>                                                                  Subject
>>                                      Re: [wsbpel] Issue 229 -
>>     
>> Proposal
>>  
>>
>>                                      for vote
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> Thank you again for sending the proposal out.
>>
>> I am for general direction of this proposal.
>>
>> "Explicit invocation of compensation for such a scope nested within S
>> effectively removes the scope from the default-order compensation, 
>> but the
>> remainder of the compensation order is preserved. If a <compensate/>
>>     
>> is
>>  
>>
>> used prior to a <compensate scope="Sx"/> the latter is treated as a 
>> no-op"
>>
>> Technically, what your text describe is consistent with my
>>     
>> understanding
>>  
>>
>> and preference.
>>
>> However the wording of "effectively removes" make me worry this text 
>> gives
>> people an impression that the default-order compensation is mutable
>>     
>> upon
>>  
>>
>> <compensate scope="Sx" />. In fact, we have no mechanism to change
>>     
>> the
>>  
>>
>> default-order.
>>
>> Thinking out loud here ... how about:
>> "After any explicit invocation of compensation for such a scope
>>     
>> nested
>>  
>>
>> within S, the default-order compensation is still available via
>> <compensate/> activity. During the default-order compensation, any 
>> attempt
>> to compensate a scope which has been already explicity compensated is
>>     
>> a
>>  
>>
>> no-op. On the other hand, if a <compensate/> is used prior to a 
>> <compensate
>> scope="Sx"/> the latter is treated as a no-op"
>>
>> I guess it will have less room of misunderstanding.
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex Yiu
>>
>>
>> Chris Keller wrote:
>>     Issue 229
>>
>>     Proposal Summary: Allow <compensate/> after <compensate scope="Sx"/>
>>     and emphasize that user defined fault and compensation handlers must
>>     explicitly call compensate for child scope compensation to
>>     
>> occur.
>>  
>>
>>     Changes to current specification
>>     --------------------------------
>>
>>     Section 13.3.3
>>
>>     "...Note that the <compensate/> activity in a fault or
>>     
>> compensation
>>  
>>
>>     handler attached to scope S causes the default-order invocation
>>     
>> of
>>  
>>
>>     compensation handlers for completed scopes directly nested within S.
>>     The use of this activity can be mixed with any other
>>     
>> user-specified
>>  
>>
>>     behavior except the explicit invocation of <compensate
>>     
>> scope="Sx"/>
>>  
>>
>>     for scope Sx nested directly within S. Explicit invocation of
>>     compensation for such a scope nested within S disables the
>>     availability of default-order compensation, as expected."
>>
>>     Change to:
>>
>>     "...Note that the <compensate/> activity in a fault or
>>     
>> compensation
>>  
>>
>>     handler attached to scope S causes the default-order invocation
>>     
>> of
>>  
>>
>>     compensation handlers for completed scopes directly nested within S.
>>     The use of this activity can be mixed with any other
>>     
>> user-specified
>>  
>>
>>     behavior including the explicit invocation of <compensate
>>     scope="Sx"/> for scope Sx nested directly within S. Explicit
>>     invocation of compensation for such a scope nested within S
>>     effectively removes the scope from the default-order
>>     
>> compensation,
>>  
>>
>>     but the remainder of the compensation order is preserved. If a
>>     <compensate/> is used prior to a <compensate scope="Sx"/> the latter
>>     is treated as a no-op.
>>
>>     The compensate activity MUST be used by user defined fault
>>     
>> handlers
>>  
>>
>>     and compensation handlers for child scope compensation to be called.
>>     If a user defined fault handler or compensation handler does not
>>     
>>
>>  
>>
>> use
>>     the compensate activity child scopes will not be compensated."
>>
>>
>>     Section 14.6
>>
>>     --- Remove this section as it is not applicable per issue 209
>>     resolution ---
>>
>>
>>     Appendix A -
>>
>>     --- Remove repeatedCompensation fault as it is not applicable
>>     
>> per
>>  
>>
>>     issue 209 resolution ---
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>




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