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Subject: Re: [wsdm] [wsmf] notes from the 8/13 meeting

Attached are the notes.  Thank you Latha.


M. Homayoun Pourheidari wrote:
WSMF/GRID Refactoring Conference Calls

I would like the calls to take place each Wednesday starting August the 13th, for the next three weeks, at the following times;

2:00pm - 4:00pm Eastern

11:00am - 1:00pm Pacific


Aug 13th:

Assign Minute taker (John or a virtual John - I hope you join these calls!)

Assign Editorial duties

Review some preliminary work that is done by hp and reflects hp's discussions with ogsi

** I will send some material out for review before the meeting **

Aug 20th:
Assign Minute taker (John or a virtual John - I hope you join these calls!)
Review previous minutes
Further discussions
Agree on a draft document template

Aug 27th:

Assign Minute taker (John or a virtual John - I hope you join these calls!)
Review previous minutes
Review the draft document before submission to the bigger TC.

Call Information
Call In Numbers:
1-866-639-4730 (US)
1-574-948-0377 (International)
Conference ID: 4475012

M. Homayoun Pourheidari
Web Services Management Operation
HP OpenView Division
WSDM-WSMF Sub TC meeting on August 13,2003
Homayoun Pourheidari (HP)
Gavenraj Sodhi -- Kevin (CA)
Heather Kreger (IBM)
Latha Srinivasan (HP)

Homayoun: document sent out yesterday about WSMF/OGSA/OGSI comparison

Goal of subteam - to figure out what refactoring of wsmf over ogsi
means and produce a document to be submitted to the WSDM TC.

Dates: document by the end of the month. On the 20th, we should be
able to come up with something about what it means to refactor.  By
27th, review the document and submit to WSDM TC.

Doc -- initial comparison.
SDEs vs. attributes 
notion of meta-info (is SDE the right structure to support that?)

Events -- OGSI has an event subsystem that supports Push
model. Doesn't support Pull model.

Differences in fault handling, interfaces etc.

Heather: How do you see the overlaps between similar OGSI work with
WSMF-Foundation. How do Collections vs ServiceGroup etc. work out?

Homayoun: To either remove one operation in favor of another or to
leave both of them in there and let it be decided on based on user
feedback that we get. e.g: GetState vs. findServiceData(State)

Collections -- WSMF Collections are supported by OGSI ServiceGroup
PortType. One approach may be to include ServiceGroup PortType as
another portType that has to be inherited by the Foundation. Cons: We
don't want something heavyweight.  Collection could inherit from
ServiceGroup and ServiceGroup already extends GridService.

Is ManagedObject going to inherit GridService?
Yes, we think so.

Some of the issues : do we need to support GWSDLs and SDEs. WSDL1.1?
Can SDEs be used at design time only or also at run-time?

Meta-data: Can they be captured by SDEs? findServiceData only returns
values, does not return meta-info at run-time. That is a limitation We
need to invent something that returns that info. Meta-info should be
allowed to change dynamically.

Heather: defn. of meta-data: it is static. It is a grid
perception. wSMF does not have the same info. E.g of meta-info that
could change: Display_Name.

Homayoun: We could add new SDE at run-time and figure out what has
been added through the Notification mechanisms.

Heather: How do you add that? 

Action item: Details of how to add SDEs dynamically. Steve Graham says
you can add them to ServiceDataNames.

Homayoun: Issue: OGSI hasn't paid much attention to types.

Homayoun: We are looking into the area of how best to capture
meta-info in OGSI. Steve Tuecke's opinion is that meta-info is
captured in a separate document. CMM folks know that they need some
additional meta-info. E.g: Lifecycle, unit etc.  were added as
ServiceData. Not treated as a separate document.

Homayoun: Policy presents an interesting case.
Heather: Policy may be a separate thing.

Homayoun: We would like to treat all meta-data info in the same way.
Heather: How do we deal with complex policy? 

Homayoun: We may be able to attach policies to SDEs.

Heather: Agree that meta-info needs to be attached to SDEs -- at a
fine grained level. However, policy may not fall into the same
category. Meta-data on attributes like mutability, valid_states not as
complex as policies and rules in policies.

Homayoun: There could be an operation such as GetMetaData that could
be used to retrieve a WS-Policy document or something else.

Heather: Is there a generic method to get meta data info in OGSI?

Heather: How do you see RelationShips? CMM has Relationships.
Homayoun: Is there a spec.? 

Heather: yes, the spec. is very sketchy.  

CMM defines relationships in terms of source and target.  dependencies
like federates, hosts etc.  relationships can be dealt with the
generic findServiceData operation.

CRM document posted on OGSI page and WSDM page.

Heather: Handles and References?

Homayoun: OGSI is more comprehensive. wSMF should adopt the GSH-GSR

Heather: We don't always want to go to the common denominator --
eg.findServiceData to get State etc.

Heather: Lifecycle operations -- CMM describes lifecycle of the
managed resource. Lifecycle comparison was done between WSMF- Managed
Object and the OGSI GridService.

Heather: Really interested in how the interfaces are impacted? 

Heather: ServiceDataName -- how does it know what the declaration of
that SDE is?

Homayoun: All types can be found via URLs in WSMF.

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