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Subject: RE: [wsdm] One more idea on relationships


Heather, the same interoperability argument applies to wsrf:Selector or wsn:TopicExpression which both have dialects. By basing on WSRF and WSN WSDM already inherits the "non-interoperability" you're refering to. And also many more of other similar standards out there are like this. You specify standard dialects and let people extend this for their needs. Managers needs to understand the dialects they care about, not all possible dialects. That's called extensibility. There is no way we can guess now what kind of other reference kinds are possible...
-----Original Message-----
From: Heather Kreger [mailto:kreger@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Fri 8/13/2004 1:20 AM
To: Sedukhin, Igor S
Cc: Vambenepe, William N; wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wsdm] One more idea on relationships

I'm getting uneasy that there is going to be gratuitous creation of new dialects for random reasons.
I'm concerned that this will reduce interoperability. All managers will have to understand all dialects to be able
to interoperate. Developers may not try to use standard dialects that all managers can understand
and only build custom dialects if they absolutely need them because it is too easy.

We need to make sure sufficient information is in the base model to do the job and not push function
to extensibility traits if we think it will be a common case to deal with.

Selfness seems like a common problem, ESPECIALLY with multiple dialects and resource names.
I think its an interesting problem whose solution is probably not more information in a dialect.

Heather Kreger
STSM, Web Services Lead Architect for SWG Emerging Technologies
Author of "Java and JMX: Building Manageable Systems"
kreger@us.ibm.com
919-543-3211 (t/l 441) cell:919-496-9572

Inactive hide details for "Sedukhin, Igor S" <Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com>"Sedukhin, Igor S" <Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com>


          "Sedukhin, Igor S" <Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com>

          08/12/2004 11:41 PM


To

"Vambenepe, William N" <vbp@hp.com>, <wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org>

cc


Subject

RE: [wsdm] One more idea on relationships

This is a reference dialect. Just define a new dialect in the spec. No reason to have an attribute which is always there, but sometimes true sometimes false.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vambenepe, William N [mailto:vbp@hp.com]
Sent: Thu 8/12/2004 9:33 PM
To: wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc:
Subject: [wsdm] One more idea on relationships



Here is a potential problem:

I have an EPR to a resource foo. I ask resource foo to send me the
"containment" relationships it's involved in. It returns one
relationship to me. This relationship contains an EPR pointing to the
container and an EPR pointing to the containee. The trouble is, neither
of these EPR matches the EPR I used to contact foo. Since there could be
more than one EPR per resource, this is perfectly possible. How do I
know whether foo is the container or the containee?

Retrieving the ResourceId may help, but even this is not guaranteed to
succeed. And it might require more round trips.

I suggest that we create an optional "self" attribute of type boolean
that can be placed on a participant in a relationship. By placing it on
a participant, a resource that sends the relationship indicates that it
is the participant in question. Obviously, if the relationship is
retrieved from someone who is not a participant in the relationship, the
"self" attribute would not appear.

Regards,

William

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