RE: [wsn] Re: [wsdm] Proposed requirement from WSDM

[Tom Maguire <tmaguire@us.ibm.com>]

+1 to sgg
Perhaps I'm missing something but isn't this not a filter but rather an
xslt (transform) and
as such the consumer is responsible for the "schema" derived from the
transform.

Tom


Steve Graham/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 09/10/2004 08:04:11 AM:

>
> "Vambenepe, William N" <vbp@hp.com> wrote on 09/09/2004 07:35:01 PM:
>
> > Yes, this is a hard part. On solution is to drop the "must comply
> to the schema"
> > requirement, for example by saying that this subscribe option can
> only be used on
> > topics that contain "xsd:Any" in their associated "messageType"
attribute.
> How important is the "must comply to schema" constraint in your
> scenario. Given that
> the subscriber is imposing this message subset constraint, it strikes me
that
> the subscriber/consumer should then be capable of dealing with an
arbitrary
> message type that results from the subset. Quite frankly I don't see why
the
> NotificationProducer would care whether the message (post
> subsetting) would validate
> or not.  To me, the validation constraint is one of producer-
> consumer coordination.
> If the subscriber/consumer specifically chooses to have a subsetting
> constraint, then
> the shape of the resulting message should be the
> subscriber/consumer's concern alone.
>
> >
> > Another option is to say that this allows you to drop elements that
have a
> > minOccurs of zero. Maybe to keep it simple we also say that these
> elements must be
> > direct children of the root. Or maybe we let them be anywhere.
> The more "special casing" we do, the harder the implementation and
> the more cases where
> the feature is not usable.  I would prefer dropping the validation
constraint.
>
> >
> > We can try to come up with solutions to this. But the first order
> of business is
> > for this group to decide whether to open an issue on this
> requirement from WSDM.
> Agreed.
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > William
> >
> > From: Ugo Corda [mailto:UCorda@SeeBeyond.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:29 AM
> > To: Steve Graham; Vambenepe, William N
> > Cc: wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org; wsn@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: RE: [wsn] Re: [wsdm] Proposed requirement from WSDM
>
> > > It will, of course be very tricky to make sure that the
> "pattern" expressed will
> > end up with a notification message that is
> > > still validatable with respect to the message schema.
> >
> > I had the same type of reaction when reading the requirement. How
> do you guys in
> > WSDM make a server accept messages that do not comply with the WSDL
schema
> > specified for the complete message? Do you also define submessage
> schemas in the WSDL?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Ugo
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steve Graham [mailto:sggraham@us.ibm.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:08 AM
> > To: Vambenepe, William N
> > Cc: wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org; wsn@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: [wsn] Re: [wsdm] Proposed requirement from WSDM
>
> >
> > Interesting.
> > So this is kinda like a very strongly applied filter expression?
> > Right now, the selector specifies a pattern that MUST be met in
> order for the
> > entire message to be sent.
> >
> > If I understand this requirement, it is an additional "expression" on
the
> > subscribe, but stating the pattern of the notification itself, ie
> the elements that must
> > appear on the notification and no more than those elements specified.
> >
> > It will, of course be very tricky to make sure that the "pattern"
> expressed will
> > end up with a notification message that is still validatable with
respect
> > to the message schema.
> >
> > sgg
> >
> > ++++++++
> > Steve Graham
> > (919)254-0615 (T/L 444)
> > STSM, On Demand Architecture
> > Member, IBM Academy of Technology
> > <Soli Deo Gloria/>
> > ++++++++
> >
> >
>
> >
> > "Vambenepe, William N" <vbp@hp.com>
> > 09/09/2004 01:34 PM
> >
> > To
> >
> > <wsn@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >
> > cc
> >
> > <wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >
> > Subject
> >
> > [wsdm] Proposed requirement from WSDM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear WSNers,
> >
> > The WSDM TC would like to submit the following requirement to WSN:
> >
> > "Add the option, when subscribing for notification, to specify that
only
> > parts of the message should be sent. Note that the message that is sent
> > still needs to be schema-valid for the schema of the message."
> >
> > The reasoning behind this requirement is that the content of the
> > notification message can get very large and in some cases only a subset
> > of this is of interest to the consumer. And in some cases, the
> > notification producer doesn't know what parts of the notification the
> > consumer is interested in, but the subscriber knows. So it should be
> > possible for the subscriber to express this in the subscription.
> >
> > The WSDM TC would like WSN to add this to the WSN issues list.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > William
> >
> > PS: doesn't it make us all feel good that Outlook wants to correct
> > "WSNers" to "Winners" on the first line of this email? ;-)
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the
> roster of the OASIS
> > TC), go to http://www.oasis-open.
> org/apps/org/workgroup/wsdm/members/leave_workgroup.php.
> >