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Subject: Re: [wsdm] WS-Addressing Effects on WSDM
William, like WS-DM, we reference WS-Addressing in WS-CAF and use an open content model (because we also support WS-MD as an alternate EPR implementation). Now it's always been my understanding from when we started WS-CAF that under OASIS rules we would not be allowed to propose for adoption a specification that relies on other specifications that are themselves not standards in some recognised standards body. Since there isn't a dependency on WS-Addressing, we should be able to have WS-Context (as an example from the CAF work) pushed to standard level without any conflict. I thought I had read that there was a dependency in WS-DM on WS-Addr, either directly in the specification or in one of the ones it depends on. Is that not the case? Now currently we're looking at using WS-BaseFaults from WS-RF within WS-CAF. One issue with this would be that we couldn't move for adoption of a specification as a standard anything that used WS-BaseFaults until that was itself a standard. (Assuming the interpretation of OASIS rules is correct; I have no idea how circularities are dealt with!) WS-MD has a dependency on WS-RF and WS-N. So irrespective of the WS-Addressing issue, this issue of depending on specifications that aren't yet standards remains. True? If as someone has pointed out, those dependencies are in non-normative parts of the specification(s) and therefore not required for any conformance statements, I'd be happy to reconsider out vote on the subject. Mark. Vambenepe, William N wrote: > A related concern I've heard is that WSDM uses 2 different versions of > WS-Addressing. More precisely, WSDM uses one version of WS-A (2004/08) > but it also uses WS-BaseNotif 1.2d3 which uses another version of > WS-Addressing (2003/02). This is true and of course everyone agrees > that it is less than ideal. > > But while this creates a little bit of added complexity for some > implementations, in no case does it result in interoperability > problems. Each message exchange described by WSDM which uses an EPR > (including those inherited from WS-BaseNotif) specifies unambiguously > what version of WS-A is used in the EPR. So yes you might have to > support more than one version but you always clearly know what version > to use when. > > Here is an example: > > Using WSDM, I learn that my manageable resource A depends on a > manageable resource B. Through the WSDM relationship mechanism, I get > an EPR (version 2004/08) that points to a manageability endpoint for > B. Since I care about the health of A, I decide to register for > notifications on B so that I'll be alerted when something goes wrong > with B that could affect the health of A. To do so, I use the EPR I > have for B (again, using WS-A version 2004/08) to send a "subscribe" > message to B. The response to this message contains an EPR to the > newly created subscription. This EPR uses the 2003/02 version of WS-A. > So I now have two EPRs, one (version 2004/08) to the manageability > endpoint to B and the other one (version 2003/02) to a subscription. > These are used for different interactions and address different > endpoints. There is no confusion as to what version of WS-A to use for > what EPR. > > And in any case, smart implementations such as the ones in Apache will > be, as the saying goes, "liberal in what they consume and conservative > in what they produce". From my understanding, the Apache Hermes code > will accept any version of WS-addressing. > > Those who have concerns about these problems are warmly invited to > join us in the WSDM interop effort. > > Regards, > > William > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Heather Kreger [mailto:kreger@us.ibm.com] > *Sent:* Monday, February 28, 2005 12:59 PM > *To:* wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org > *Subject:* [wsdm] WS-Addressing Effects on WSDM > > > I just thought I'd try to correct any misunderstandings from Martin's > post. In his post > he makes a set of assertions and I'd just like to clarify one or two. > The assertion that > the changes to WS-Addressting are disruptive to the WSDM V1.0 > specifation. > > "In > particular WS-Addressing is currently being worked on and looks like > the final version when it finally emerges will be significantly > different from its various antecedent proprietary versions. In > particular the debates and changes surrounding reference properties > and parameters will mean the use of different schema types and usage > patterns. None of these changes will mean that it can't be used by > these higher level specifications, e.g. WSDM, etc., but they will need > to be modified. The current Working Draft of the W3C WS-Addressing Working > Group [2] includes this status section:" > > "This is a draft document and may be updated, replaced or obsoleted by > other documents at any time. > It is inappropriate to cite this document > as other than work in progress." > > Because WSDM treats the entire EPR as opaque. We only use the EPR as a > unit. > We do not suggest how to create the EPR or ever suggest information be > extracted from EPRs. > > Therefore, WSDM V1.0 is unaffected by changes in the WS-Addressing > specification in the W3C. > WSDM V1.0 does not reference the WS-Addressing Working Draft, it > references the submission: > > http://www.w3.org/Submission/2004/SUBM-ws-addressing-20040810/. The > submission itself is stable. > > It is not changing during development of the specification. It does > not have the same text quoted above in the status section. > > WSDM V2.0 is already scoped to include making whatever changes are > necessary to use the standard > versions of WS-Addresssing, WS-Notification, and WS-Resource Framework. > > Heather Kreger > STSM, Web Services Lead Architect for SWG Emerging Technologies > Author of "Java and JMX: Building Manageable Systems" > kreger@us.ibm.com > 919-543-3211 (t/l 441) cell:919-496-9572 >
begin:vcard fn:Mark Little n:Little;Mark email;internet:mark.little@arjuna.com title:Chief Architect version:2.1 end:vcard
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