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Subject: RE: [wsdm] Question about example of Sec. 4.6 Metrics
Hi Kirk, I agree with your example in case of GatheringTime = "OnChange". As you mentioned, I assumed GatheringTime is "Periodic" in my past mail. And in your example, I found some trivial errors. 1. value of mows-xs:ServiceTime will be "PT3H28M13.52S" (format of duration). 2. Duration attribute of mows-xs:MaxResponseTime will be about "PT1H47M38.54S". 16:12:36.37 - (14:24:58.21 - 0.38S) 3. value of mows-xs:MaxResponseTime should be greater value (10S or 20S). ServiceTime (3H28M13.52S = 12493.52S) 12493.52S / 1556 requests = 8.02 sec./req. I think that at least average service (response) time of one request (8.02sec) should be less than MaxResponseTime (0.02 sec in this example). I guess that we should continue to discuss about metric's attributes and metadatas and sort out these things for next version of WSDM spec. P.S. I hope the Interop Demo at EMW will succeed tomorrow. ---- Mitsunori SATOMI (mailto:Mitsunori.Satomi@hds.com) Director, Advanced Software Architect Hitachi Data Systems Corporation > -----Original Message----- > From: Wilson, Kirk D [mailto:Kirk.Wilson@ca.com] > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 8:34 AM > To: Mitsunori Satomi; Murray, Bryan P. > Cc: wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org; fred.carter@amberpoint.com > Subject: RE: [wsdm] Question about example of Sec. 4.6 Metrics > > Satomi-san, > > Attached is further elaboration of the example. I show two > sets of examples, the first set (which was part of my > original attachment) is for TimeScope=SinceReset (or > PointInTime in the case of LastResponseTime). The second set > is for the same data for TimeScope=Interval (for those NOWS > metric properties that can be either SinceReset or Interval). > I assume that Duration = LastUpdate - ResetAt, as you show > in your example of MaxResponseTime. > > I did find one error in my original example. > LastResponseTime (a PointInTime metric) MUST NOT have a ResetAt. > > I did notice that the MOWS metric properties are not > perfectly in conformance with the MUWS, which requires a > GatheringTime instance for each metric property. This > metadata is not specified for the MOWS metric properties in > the MOWS spec. I assume that the MOWS metrics are > "OnChange". (IMHO, I think Bryan's comment, which you quote, > may be confusing TimeScope=interval with > GatheringTime=P(eriodic and/or > CalculationInterval.) > > Note that at one point the text states that Duration can > change every time the metric is updated. I assume that one > case in which this would be true is in the case of > MaxResponseTime. Each time a new MaxResponseTime is hit, the > duration changes to the duration from the last > MaxReponseTime. (???--This strikes me as a little strange. > The statement seems to conflict with the earlier statement > that "a duration usually remains the same for every reading > of a metric.") Thus, in this case ResetAt has no > significance, since the first response time after a "reset" > will be the max. (This idea is reflected in the second > example of MaxResponseTime.) > > Also, the definition of ChangeType=Gauge in the MUWS text is > unacceptable--it says noting. > > I hope > Kirk Wilson > Architect, Development > Office of the CTO > 802 765-4337 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsunori Satomi [mailto:Mitsunori.Satomi@hds.com] > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:47 PM > To: Wilson, Kirk D; Murray, Bryan P. > Cc: wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org; fred.carter@amberpoint.com > Subject: RE: [wsdm] Question about example of Sec. 4.6 Metrics > > Bryan, Kirk and Jane. Thank you for help. > > Kirk, I make sense of your example. > > But the point I'd like to clarify is just what Bryan > mentioned as follows, > > > - ResetAt may be included with the metric value. There is no clear > > indication of what ResetAt means for an Interval metric, however, I > > believe it is the time at which the metric was reset. For example, > > this metric was reset at midnight, but the interval ends at > the end of > > every hour. I am not sure what it means to reset an > interval metric, > > except if the ResetAt value is less than the Duration, > which I guess > > means that the metric was reset in this interval. > > IMHO, if "reset" event is occurred before the start time of > Interval, I guess that the "reset" event has no effect to the > measurement of this interval. > So in this case, if "ResetAt" attribute is returned, > "ResetAt" value should indicate the beginning time of > interval. (Because I think that the start of interval means > nearly the "reset" event.) > > And I guess that we should include at least one example of "Interval" > metric > in the Primer's example > like followings, > > <mows-xs:MaxResponseTime > ResetAt="2005-06-14T14:14:20.1881806-04:00" > LastUpdated="2005-06-14T14:24:20.1881806-04:00" > Duration="PT10M" >PT0.02S</MaxResponseTime> > > One of the reasons we confused in this topic, we removed the "reset" > operation from WSDM 1.0 spec, I think. > > Anyway, we should discuss about this topic and have to > clarify the value of "ResetAt" and also meaning of "reset" of > metrics in the next version of WSDM specification. > > Regards, > ---- > Mitsunori SATOMI (mailto:Mitsunori.Satomi@hds.com) > Director, Advanced Software Architect > Hitachi Data Systems Corporation > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wilson, Kirk D [mailto:Kirk.Wilson@ca.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:42 PM > > To: Murray, Bryan P.; Mitsunori Satomi; fred.carter@amberpoint.com; > > wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: RE: [wsdm] Question about example of Sec. 4.6 Metrics > > > > I have reworked the data in the 4.6 Metrics example (see attached). > > Does this data make more sense? If so, Heather/Bryan, please > > substitute the example (in vers 17 the example replaces lines > > 4736 - 4762. > > > > I still need to study the issues of what attributes support what > > metadata for metrics. (IOW, there may be changes to the text.) > > > > Kirk Wilson > > Architect, Development > > Office of the CTO > > 802 765-4337 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Murray, Bryan P. [mailto:bryan.murray@hp.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:45 PM > > To: Mitsunori Satomi; fred.carter@amberpoint.com; > > wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: RE: [wsdm] Question about example of Sec. 4.6 Metrics > > > > I have always been confused over which attributes > may/should/must be > > used with which values of metadata for metrics. It is pretty > > complicated. > > > > I don't think the spec explains it well, but here is how I > understand > > a metric with TimeScope=Interval: > > > > - Duration attribute must be used. It specifies the during > which data > > was collected. The length of the interval might be longer than the > > duration. The metadata CalculationInterval migh offer information > > about the length of the interval. > > > > - ResetAt may be included with the metric value. There is no clear > > indication of what ResetAt means for an Interval metric, however, I > > believe it is the time at which the metric was reset. For example, > > this metric was reset at midnight, but the interval ends at > the end of > > every hour. I am not sure what it means to reset an > interval metric, > > except if the ResetAt value is less than the Duration, > which I guess > > means that the metric was reset in this interval. > > > > - LastUpdated should indicate the end of the interval for which the > > metric represents. LastUpdated - Duration should be the time of the > > beginning of the interval. CurrentTime - LastUpdated should > tell you > > how far into the next interval the data collection is going. > > > > > > Now if we look at the values used. > > > > - The metric was reset ~1 minute 4 seconds before the > metric was read. > > - it was last updated only 0.04 seconds after the reset > > - the data collection time for this value was more than 24 seconds > > > > I agree with you that the times do not make sense. The values > > indicate that the metric was reset in the middle of data > > collection. I do not think we should give such an example. > > > > In my mind, metrics should extremely rarely or never be > > reset. This is due to the complications it offers in a > > multiple manager situation. So, I would set the ResetAt value > > to be 3 days ago, or a month ago, or some long period > > relative to the other values. I think it is fine to have the > > last update time be just a few seconds ago. > > > > What I would do for ServiceTime is make it a SnceReset metric > > and not include the duration. I think ServiceTime is an > > accumulated time for the total time spent in that service > > across all requests. So for the example I would set its value > > to something that is a few hours. My expectation is to > > request ServiceTime with NumberOfRequests and calculate the > > time per request myself. This is the behavior that works with > > multiple managers. > > > > If my understanding is incorrect regarding the above, please > > correct me. > > > > Bryan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mitsunori Satomi [mailto:Mitsunori.Satomi@hds.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 7:56 PM > > To: fred.carter@amberpoint.com; wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: [wsdm] Question about example of Sec. 4.6 Metrics > > > > Hi Fred and folks, > > > > I have one question about the example of "4.6 Metrics" in > > wsd-wsdm-primer-15.doc. > > > > Line #4770 to #4796, e.g. mows-xs:ServiceTime is a "Interval" > > type metric (not SinceReset) because it has a Duration attribute. > > And its attributes are written as follows in this example, > > > > ResetAt = "2005-06-14T14:24:58.2181944-04:00" > > LastUpdated="2005-06-14T14:24:58.2582128-04:00" > > Duration ="PT24.621S" > > > > I think that LastUpdated - ResetAt will be nearly equal to > > the Duration value. > > But these values of example break this relationship. > > > > (And mows-xs:CurrentTime is "2005-06-14T14:25:21.6589722-04:00".) > > > > In this example CurrentTime - ResetAt is nearly equal to the > > Duration, so value of LastUpdated will be adjusted near time > > of CurrentTime or Duration should be corrected. > > > > > > And I'd like to clarify the meaning of "ResetAt" value in > > case of "Interval". > > > > From line #4801 to 4803, > > > On the other hand, the management service may report the data as > > occurring > > over an interval of time. > > > In that case, the ResetAt attribute is optional, and the > LastUpdated > > attribute should not be used. > > > > I understand that value of ResetAt attribute means the > > beginning time of this interval. Is that correct? > > > > Regards, > > ---- > > Mitsunori SATOMI (mailto:Mitsunori.Satomi@hds.com) > > Director, Advanced Software Architect > > Hitachi Data Systems Corporation > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > > TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group > > and all your TCs in OASIS > > at: > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgr > > oups.php > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > > TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group > > and all your TCs in OASIS > > at: > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgr > > oups.php > > > > > > > >
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