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Subject: [wsia] Minutes from 2/1

Attached are minutes from the 2/1 telecon.  Please check the attendance
list and let Graeme (griddell@bowstreet.com) know if you're marked down

Thanks, Charlie

              OASIS Web Services for Interactive Applications

                            Technical Committee

                              1 February 2002

                      teleconference 12:00-1:00pm EST



William Cox       BEA
Graeme Riddell          Bowstreet
Greg Giles        Cisco             No
Sean Fitts        Crossweave
Timothy N. Jones  Crossweave
Dale Moberg       Cyclone Commerce  No
Peter Quintas           Divine
Robert Serr       Divine
Sandra Swearingen DoD
Alan Korpp        Epicentric
Chad Williams           Epicentric        No
Dean Moses        Epicentric
Patel Ashish            France Telecom    No
Aditi Karandikar        France Telecom
Jacques Durand    Fujitsu                 No
Royston Sellman   HP                No
Carlos Chue       Kinzan
Garland Wong            Kinzan                  No
Sim Simeonov            Macromedia        No
Charles Wiecha          IBM (chair)
Dan Gisolfi       IBM
Ravi Konuru       IBM               No
Rich Thompson           IBM
Shankar Ramaswamy IBM
T.V. Raman        IBM               No
Rex Brooks        individual
John Kneiling           individual        No
Kevin Brinkley          Intel
Michael Mahan           Nokia
Terry Cline       Peregrine Systems
Sasha Aicken            Plumtree
Jeffrey C. Broberg      Silverstream
Suresh Damodaran  Sterling Commerce
Eilon Reshef            WebCollage
Gil Tayar         WebCollage        No


1.    Roll call
2.    Status of Glossary
3.    List of scenarios under way, and volunteers to do any additional ones
4.    Review of available scenarios: Macy's/Chanel, American Express,
Financial Charting, PC memory configurator, Mortgage Calculator,
5.    Status of WSIA presentation
6.    Karl Best on TC standard processes


12:00 roll call

12:05 review of minutes and actions from last meeting, minutes approved.

12:05 Review of Glossary ? Jeff

Cleaned it up, added comments, incorporated some of Dan's definitions.
Suggested process is to send any new terms and potential definitions on to
Jeff and he'll mark them in the Glossary as 'for review'. Also adding links
to external sites where appropriate.

Also have added sections to the Business Scenario template for "proposed
glossary terms" and "references". The intent of the former is to define any
terms that are not yet in the Glossary and then to migrate them there when
convenient, review them, etc.

12:10 Scenarios under way

Want to take inventory today and over the next couple of weeks before
harvesting Use Cases, need to get a feel for if we've got the ground

In addition to those listed in the agenda we also have the following under

-     IBM - Financial Stock assessment
-     IBM - Portal
-     Dan - Payment Instrumentation also on its way
-     Rex, Sandra - discussing doing one possibly in the .mil space
-     Bob Serr ? working on one in Health Care and another on Marketing
Channel syndication
-     Aditi ? one involving multi-modality, multimedia
-     Kevin ? supply chain scenario for adaptation and aggregation

Q: Airline scenario missing? Should probably be done since it had a
cancellation operation.

Q: Sasha's list?
A: Will be sent out again, there was a problem with the distribution
(action: Sasha)

12:15 Review of Macy's / Chanel ? Eilon

[ Eilon walked through the Macy's / Chanel business scenario ]

Chanel control the flow and experience and the "buy" signal goes back to
Macy's for fulfillment by them. Chanel is really providing product
selection functionality.

Q: What if Macy's want to combine just 2 or 3 products, not the whole
A: The Retail term is "assortment" and Chanel provide different assortments
to different retailers, but the retailers themselves have no ability to
modify the assortment that Chanel provides to them.

Q: The "balance of power" here is definitely on the producer side in this
scenario. Is this representative?
A: No, cosmetics is typically not representative. In this case there are
also legal agreements (eg, "no advertising" that are enforced in a
legal/business sense, not just with software.

Q: Customization here is done by the producer. Typical?
A: No, it's more of an extreme probably. In this case even the logos for
"brand aware" customizations (eg, Chanel at X") are built as GIFs at Chanel
with a particular look.

Q: On navigation ? does the user leave the Macy's site or can we envision
it as a "frame" on the Macy's site?
A: Nope, no transfer to another site, seamless experience for the user at
the Macy's site. Another key point from the technology perspective is to be
able to enter the boutique from different locations and exit from various
locations too.

12:25 Decided to skip Amex until next time.

12:25       Financial Charting ? Dan

[ Dan walked through the Financial Charting business scenario ]

Visualize Inc., have financial charting tools, and this scenario offers us
an ISV perspective, where one UI is developed and made available to
business partners to adapt, reuse, and extend.

Q: Is it possible to turn this into a real-time app?
A: Reference implementation? ? hopefully a reference implementation will
come out of this TC, much later.

Q: Target audience should be added to the docs? ? Likely consumers of the
A: Maybe could be done in the discussion of roles, or possibly in the
categorizations of Use Cases later. We should come back to this later,
maybe Use Cases will point out different roles.

There are probably new requirements coming out of this scenario, in this
case the web service is hosted differently.

Q: Is there an issue with using company's names in these docs?
A: Ask permission! We already agreed in the face-to-face to having the
mailing list publicly accessible.

action: Charlie - this might be an issue for OASIS Legal ? needs follow up!

action: Divine - It would be interesting to understand the controls at the
data/message level in this scenario that give the ability for adaptation /
extending, maybe we can get some of that detail into this doc?

12:40 Mortgage calculator ? Dean, Alan

This is a mortgage application in a portal environment, aiming to show what
types of [ lightweight ] adaptations might be possible. Typically the
mortgage calculator might be a loss leader encouraging consumers to utilize
loan processing, credit check services, etc.

[ Dean, Alan walked through Mortgage calculator scenario ]

Q: Aim is to bundle this into something else?
A: Not really, maybe bundle it into related services. It's acting as a
portlet, concerned with adaptations on that calculator.

Q: Is this scenario relevant to portlet concerns?
A: No ? with this one we know what's going on inside it, its expectations,
etc. Page 3 of the doc is looking at how the calculator can be customized.
It's mainly localization, eg, removing a lower range of options. But the
presentation choices rest with the consumer, not the producer.

Q: Are we addiing & removing items from pages?
A: The idea is that content can change with Locale, eg, questions for
credit scoring might change, even the [question] flow might want to change.

Q: Appropriate scenario for considering other devices?
A: Yes, this scenario also captures the need for adaptation to device and
UI specifics. That device adaptation might be done through different

- Suggestion that adding some machine-readable detail to allow flow
adaptation seems appropriate.

action: Epicentric ? can we get an example of this (adaptation?)?

12:48 SmartBuyer supplier integration - Tim, Sean

[ Tim, Sean walked through SmartBuyer scenario ]

Consumers might also want to add their own rules, eg, discounts on prices,
or they may only want to display a subset of the catalog. The supplier
(producer) sends out one catalog list, the consumer selects what is to be

(Interesting contrast here as a lot of value is being added at the consumer

Q: Changes necessary to add shipping/freight into the mix?
A: Typically want to get that info not just from the product supplier but
also from maybe a logistics supplier, another participant.

General feature is that in these apps we'll have one app using a supplier's
commerce app and then using other apps from other suppliers.

Q: Client can add annotations?
A: Some producers alter prices, etc for clients, and sometimes discounts
can be applied at the client-side. So we have adaptation of both
presentation and data. Eg, at the end of purchase the buyer needs to
extract the appropriate data to feed the logistics request.

1:00  Procurement scenario - Shankar

Shares Chanel and Crossweave features. Product configurators tend to have a
strong user experience. Retailers also want to be able to customize and
configure prices and availability, they might add product reviews and
ratings, and do cross-sells with other appropriate products.

Q: Payment mechanisms different (specified at all?)  in these scenarios?
A: Configurator has no payment involved, Macy's and Chanel have payment

action: Eilon ? Mapquest scenario might be good to elaborate as it probably
has a metering payment scheme with it's consumers.

action: all ? probably give ourselves about another week to review these
scenarios, introduce new ones.

action: all ? anyone interested in helping to develop a standard set of
procedures, documents etc for OASIS committees such as ours should contact
Karl Best.

1:05  adjourn

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