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Subject: RE: [wsia][wsia-requirements][R602]
As I said earlier, We cannot ignore javascript eventhough its binary. Its too prevalent We need to define what means to customize java script. Here are some thoughts. - routing control (Required) - interception and interpretation of invocations from java script to the WSIA service (Required for customized case) - interception and interpretation of invocations from one javascript function to another local function - modifying event handlers - modifying data and control variables. - modifying code. (add a new line in a javscript code, IMO prepostrous but kept for completeness ) To enable each of these, we need to define the architecture and potentially guidelines on how javascript is generated. Note that a WSIA service may choose to only provide the first two wrt java script so may be less customizable than another WSIA service. If do define guidelines for the first two items in the list, IMO we should be able to use the same guidelines for other *binary* formats. regards, Ravi. Sean Fitts <sean@crossweave. To: Eilon Reshef <eilon.reshef@webcollage.com>, Ravi com> Konuru/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, wsia@lists.oasis-open.org cc: 05/08/2002 11:23 Subject: RE: [wsia][wsia-requirements][R602] AM I would completely agree that we should avoid customization of *binary* formats for the first release. However, I agree with Elion that even if we might like to (and personally I don't), we cannot treat JavaScript as a binary for this purpose. Beyond the fact that it *isn't* binary, as Elion points out it is just used way too much. In fact, the use of JavaScript to dynamically generate not just validation logic, but entire UI's is increasing in usage (just take a look at the recent product releases from both Siebel and PeopleSoft). IMO, if the WSIA is going to be at all relevant, we have to acknowledge and allow for the current best practices. If to become WSIA compliant, companies must completely re-write their existing applications, then WSIA adoption will be seriously impeded. To me this means that we must allow for customization of JavaScript and not just for action routing purposes. Sean At 10:57 AM 5/8/2002 -0400, Eilon Reshef wrote: Ravi, I think that your observation that JavaScript is essentially "yet another binary format" catches the bull by its horns - in a way, that sharpens the question. It more than makes sense - in my view - to ignore customization of binary formats for the first release (at least by the Consumer, the Producer can always hand-code anything). However, to me, supporting action routing in JavaScript (even if not transparently) is a must. (There are way too many apps that use JavaScript for links and forms). Eilon -----Original Message----- From: Ravi Konuru [mailto:rkonuru@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 9:59 AM To: wsia@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [wsia][wsia-requirements][R602] Questions/comments: - Is Java script being considered non- binary in these discussions? From my perspective, it is binary. - Does "Should not" mean that we will "try" not to introduce in our specification assumptions about output of a service? This is not verifiable. I rather say we will initially focus on XML formats but will tackle binary formats in the next rev? However, don't like this option. see next. - Should we define a set of guidelines for downloaded binary code to allow at least for routing if not for customization? I prefer this. Given the prevalence of downloaded code (script and flash). We should say what works and what doesn't. regards, Ravi Konuru Rich Thompson/Watson/I To: wsia@lists.oasis-open.org BM@IBMUS cc: Subject: RE: [wsia][wsia-requirements][R602] 05/06/2002 08:39 AM While I do think we need to think about how a Consumer can provide enough information that a Producer could embed action invocations and the like in binary formats, I think the last sentence needs to be a SHOULD NOT rather than a MUST NOT as it may not turn out to be feasible once we consider this for a multi-tiered chain of Producers and Consumer. Eilon Reshef <eilon.reshef@webc To: "'Alan Kropp'" <akropp@epicentric.com>, ollage.com> wsia@lists.oasis-open.org cc: 05/06/2002 01:06 Subject: RE: [wsia][wsia-requirements][R602] AM I'll put my 1.5 cents into this discussion, even though I didn't originally put my name for it :-) I think that it more than makes sense that we shouldn't ask the Consumer to parse and modify Flash content, Java applets, or any other binary format. The question in my mind (regarding the actual intent of this requirement) is: should the WSIA protocol *permit* some sequence of calls in which a WSIA Web Service that contains Flash/Java/ActiveX with links or forms would still work, even though it has user interaction, and even though "smart look-and-feel customization" (whatever this is) will not be offered. This point - although seemingly minor - may have significant implications on the actual protocol with regards to action routing. If we do decide that binary formats should be supported even at a basic level, then (at least according to my possibly limited understanding) this means that we must provide at least some way (not necessarily the "mainstream" way) for the Consumer to provide enough information to the Producer (who serves the binary data) so that the binary content is served in such a way in which all the actions are routed correctly to the Consumer. This means that the Producer has to take care of it, but it would make it doable. We at WebCollage have encountered some cases where people used Flash for parts of their applications, so it made sense for us to consider it. However, we need to decide whether this is something that the WSIA committee as a whole cares about. Eilon -----Original Message----- From: Alan Kropp [mailto:akropp@epicentric.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 8:41 PM To: 'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org' Subject: [wsia][wsia-requirements][R602] R602 [Flexibility] This specification should support common Presentation Formats, which are in use today in Net-enabled applications. In particular, it should support HTML, XHTML, WML and XML as Presentation Formats. It must not preclude the use of other presentation formats (Eilon: such as Flash, GIFs, etc.). Debate on last sentence: AK, CW. I think only XML and HTML (due to its ubiquity) markups should be supported by name, other formats should be considered opaque in the markup stream. Last sentence should read: It must not preclude the use of other presentation formats, although these (e.g., Flash, GIFs, etc.) shall be considered opaque in the markup stream. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> ---------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> ---------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
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