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Subject: [wsia] F2F 11/7 Minutes (Website version)
- From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
- To: wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
- Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:57:43 -0800
Title: F2F 11/7 Minutes (Website
version)
Thursday,
11/7/02
Roll
Voting
Members
Company
Stephen Drye (on
leave)
Art Technology
Group
William Cox
BEA
y
Adrian
Fletcher
BEA
Gino
Filicetti
Bowstreet
Steven Smith
Capitol
College
y
Andre Kramer Citrix y
Monica
Martin
Drake
Certivo
Raj Ramesh
CommerceOne y
Timothy N.
Jones
CrossWeave
Alan Kropp
Epicentric
y
Nigel
Ratcliffe
Factiva
Madoka Mitsuoka (on
leave)
Fujitsu
Sunit
Randhawa
Fujitsu y
Richard
Cieply
IBM
y
Carsten Leue IBM y
Thomas Schaeck,
chair
IBM
y
Rich
Thompson
IBM
y
Charles
Wiecha
IBM
y
Eric van
Lydegraf
Kinzan y
Jon Klein
Reed-Elsivier
Adam Nolen
Reed-Elsivier y
Petr Palas
Moravia
IT
Olin
Atkinson
Novell
Chris Braun
Novell y
T.J. Cox
Novell y
Michael
Freedman
Oracle y
Mike
Hillerman
Peoplesoft
Art Machado
Peoplesoft
Ken Pugsley
Peoplesoft
Sasha Aickin
Plumtree
y
Jane Dynin
Plumtree
Joseph
Stanko
Plumtree
Michael
Young
Plumtree
Amir Blich
SAP
Gennady
Shumaker
SAP
Yossi Tamari
SAP
y
Rex Brooks
Starbourne
y
Brian
Dirking
Stellent
Alejandro
Abdelnur
Sun
Microsystems
y
Dave Clegg
Sybase
Joe Rudnicki
U.S.
Navy
y
Eilon Reshef (on
leave)
WebCollage
Gil Tayar
WebCollage
y
Prospective Members
(non-voting)
Dan
Machak
Tibco
WSIA
Members
(non-voting)
Graeme
Riddell
Bowstreet
Bruce Lucas
IBM
y
Ravi Konuru
IBM
Dan Gisolfi
IBM
Rich: We resolved
31 issues yesterdayŠunfortunately most of them were the easier
ones.
Mike F: Make sure
everyone realizes that without groupID, must rely on transport level
mechanisms (or extension) to support shared sessions.
#140
Internationalization
Inline vs. separate
resource. Uses xml:lang, so we're not inventing a new
localization mechanism.
Sasha: Set of
property descriptions could change?
Rich:
Yes.
Sasha: So
localization resource would have to be dynamic as well,
synchronization issue.
Eilon: Also since
description can be filtered, localization resource would have to be
similarly filtered.
Rex: Clear
performance difference between the two?
Sasha: Yes,
although dependent on network considerationsŠso it's probably a
wash.
Rich: One
implication of choosing separate structures is a new operation to get
localization.
Charlie:
"factored" inline is a 3rd approach, which includes localization
resource in the same document, without localization URI.
Vote: Inline:
17 Separate: 3 Abstain: 2
Rich: 2nd
question: format of the inline for tooling purposes.
Won't accept xml:lang with a type attribute. So we need
indirection through resources.
Vote: Indirection:
Yes: 12 No: 7 Abstain: 4
#149 Should
get/setProperty take locales?
Mike F: This
opens the question of a user being able to have different preferences
based on locale.
Gil: Oppose this
layering of properties by locale.
Bruce: Haven't
seen this in anyone's notion of properties.
Vote: Yes: 4
No: 14 Abstain: 2
Rich: In the
get__Description operations, must take a desiredLocales[] and
sendAllLocales.
Andre: Why
doesn't user profile carry the user's language?
Rich: The request
may not be on behalf of this user.
Eilon: Is there a
default Consumer locale?
Rich: This could be
the zero-th element of the array (spec should reflect that
semantic).
#100 Entity property
representation
Keep the reset
attribute in the Property list?
Gil: The list has
multiple usages, and this attribute wouldn't always make sense.
If we want this capability, make it a flag or a separate
operation.
Rich: Could create
a <ResetProperty> sub-element of PropertyList.
Mike F: Why not a
formal method?
Rich: An Edit could
comprise several sets and resets, and this gets submitted as a single
operation.
Eilon: Restructure
PropertyDescription to make some of the attributes into sub-elements,
to enhance relatedness of some of them.
#147 MarkupType in
MarkupParams should be an array
Eilon:
Supported markups for an entity defined?
Rich: In
metadata.
Bruce: Like an http
accept header?
Rich:
Yes.
Vote: Make both
MarkupType and Locale are arrays, and the order is by preference.
Y: 13 N: 4 A: 3
Sasha: Do we allow
"*" like in the accept header? (Vote: Y: 9 N:
3 A: 9) Is it a MUST for the Producer to return a markup
that's in this list?
Mike F: Should
leave it as mime types right now. Can always
extend.
Rich: Doesn't
hurt, and it carries forward well-understood mechanism (accept
header).
MarkupResponse also needs
a markupType and locale.
#144 define bindings
for SOAP attachments (#148)
Rich: Benefit
is that portions of what is transferred can use different
encoding.
Andre: Are we
mandating use of attachments if content is sent in a mime type that
isn't in the MarkupType array from issue 147?
Mike F: No, not
mandating.
May need to hold on this
pending standards maturity (SOAP and DIME).
Mike F: No, we
should specify bindings for both, and neither spec appears unlikely to
proceed. This is very important for our (Oracle's)
implementation.
#59 Interface
discovery
Mike F: Don't
understand the wsdl field at the entity level. Why wouldn't
this be an extension?
Carsten: Interface
discovery at the entity levelŠwhat portTypes are available at the
entity level?
Mike F: This is not
true for the WSRP portTypes, that can only be discovered at the
Producer level. So for an entity that exposes custom interfaces,
that should be information that's available in
extensions.
Gil: This isn't a
WSRP discovery mechanism. It's a SOAP mechanism.
EntityDescription:
Drop: Y: 10 N: 2 A: 8
ServiceDescription:
Drop: Y: 9 N: 9 A: 3
#85 refHandle/expires
MUST/MAY contradiction
Consumer MUST return
refHandle when Producer sends one, except in a couple of
circumstances.
Gil: Should reword
to explain what happens when the Consumer throws away a
refHandle.
Mike F: Would be
happy with same wording we use for registration. I.e. the
Consumer is free to ignore the refHandle, as it is free to ignore a
Producer (i.e. never deregisters, or attempts to unsuccessfully).
It's important for Producers to be aware that this can
occur.
Rich:
releaseRefHandle may impact the wording.
#74 Should the
Consumer MAY or MUST destroyEntities?
Mike F: Basic
question was when the Consumer may consider that a release operation
has been successfulŠi.e. must receive indication of
success.
Sasha: There are
cases that the operation will never succeedŠcatastrophic failure,
fire, etc.
Rich: The
requirement is for the Consumer to attempt to release a
handle.
Mike F: Without the
burden of going on to specify # of retries, and how long in between,
etc.
#57 Unification of
session and entity handles (#142)
refHandle.
Refined from 0.7 to 0.8
as entityStateChange proposal evolved.
Mike F: Now that
cloneEntity no longer takes a refHandle, it isn't an
issue.
Yossi: Combining
the handles is a problem in terms of length restrictions.
Sasha: And it's
complicated the spec.
Charlie: But they
truly are correlated, so it makes sense for them to be
combined.
Rich: Related
question, that the restriction on handles doesn't need to apply to
refHandle as a runtime.
Vote: Keep
refHandle: Yes: 10 No: 8 Abstain:
2
Since this (and a couple
of other) votes are so close, then we should open an email vote on
just these issues.
Gil: There is a
problem with the combination of 256 as the max length of a handle, and
a vote in favor of keeping the combined handle.
Rich: The choice
must be 1. sessionId < 256/split: 11 2. 4k,
unified: 7 Abstain: 3
#141 IPR
Statements
WebCollage will
publish licensing terms.
IBM's statement
pending, will probably be similar to ebXML, CPPA.
#145 Should sample
implementation only implement JSR 168
Markup encoding
vs. message encoding
Attachments (or new
MarkupResponse field?)
Sasha: Either an
attachment or base64 should solve this.
Should fault codes
use our types namespace and drop the leading WSRP?
Yes.
List fault codes with
operations
Yes.
Is Extension[] needed
everywhere?
Specifically,
includes nested structures.
Other
metadata?
What does xxxx in
xxxx- mean?
Gil: The basic
issue is, what is the name of the final spec? This is a joint
spec. 'wsrp' is too specific to
portals/portlets.
Charlie: One
obvious answer: wsrp.
Sasha: That it's a
joint spec is unimportant.
Bill: Anything
other than 'wsrp' as the choice doesn't reflect the group that
created it.
Bruce: Should
change the 'P' in WSRP to 'Portlets'?
Adopted
Re-vote on CSS style
prefix now that we've selected WSRP: portlet-: 14
fragment-: 4 Abstain: 4
#66 Review
interfaces
#104
profileKey
Mike F: Impact
of SAML on user identity
Andre: Can we
strengthen the "authenticated" aspect of profileKey?
Gil: That's too
strong for the spec. Typical usage will be that this is an
authenticated key, but that's not always the case. And even if
it is authenticated, the spec can't say the Producer can rely
absolutely on the Consumer authentication.
Rewording in the
UserContext section.
Done with
issues!
Next
Face-to-Face
SAP, Palo Alto, will
host.
Timeline
November 22nd
Draft 0.9
December
16th TC provides all editorial comments
Last
additional technical issues raised by exception
January 7th
Finish draft 0.91 reflecting editorial comments.
Put Draft 0.91
on WSRP web site for public comment
January 27th -
30th Face-to-Face Palo Alto
Finalize 1.0
Specification. Discuss 2.0 direction/concepts and compliance
test kit, time permitting.
January 31st
Release 1.0
??? OASIS
Standard (~March)
WSDL
Testing
Rich, Andre, David
(Oracle), Richard
Conformance
document
Defines requirements
for a Consumer and Producer to be in compliance (Gil,
lead)
JSR 168
Implementation guide
Thomas: Also an
implementation guide for mapping WSRP to JSR 168 (Mike F.,
lead)
Adjourn
--
Rex Brooks
Starbourne Communications Design
1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA 94702 *510-849-2309
http://www.starbourne.com * rexb@starbourne.com
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