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Subject: [wsia] Re: [wsrp-wsia] Combined Minutes for Face-to-Face Meeting 27-29January 2003

The only thing I found that was left out was that I was not included 
in the Markup Subgroup, but, regardless, I am going to post this 
version as is to the wsia webpage, which is why I am appending the 
entire text.

At 6:05 PM -0500 1/29/03, Steven Smith wrote:
>Attached is a text file of the minutes for 27 through 29 January of 
>the WSRP face-to-face meeting in Palo Alto, CA.
>Steven Smith
>Director of Information Services and Technology
>Capitol College
>11301 Springfield Road
>Laurel, MD 20708
>voice: (301) 369-2800 x2548
>fax: (301) 953-1180
>email: ssmith@capitol-college.edu
>web: http://www.capitol-college.edu
Combined Minutes for WSRP Face-to-Face Meeting 27-29 January 2003

Minutes for WSRP Face-to-Face Meeting 27 January 2003
Meeting started 10:01am Pacific Time

Voting Members Attending:
Abdelnur, Alejandro Sun Microsystems    Yes
Aickin, Sasha       Plumtree       Yes           
Allamaruaju, Subbu  BEA            Yes           
Atkinson, Olin Novell              No                 
Blich, Amir         SAP            Yes           
Braun, Chris        Novell              Yes           
Brooks, Rex         Starbourne          Yes           
Cox, T.J.      Novell              No
Cox, William        BEA            Yes           
Dirking, Brian      Stellent       No
Freedman, Michael   Oracle              Yes           
Fubini, Ross        Plumtree       Yes           
Jacob, Richard IBM            Yes           
Klein, Jon          Reed-Elsevier       Yes           
Kramer, Andre  Citrix              Yes
Kropp, Alan         Vignette Corporation     Yes
Leue, Carsten       IBM            Yes
Machak, Dan         Tibco               Yes
Nolan, Adam         Reed-Elsevier       Yes
Randhawa, Sunit     Fujitsu             No
Ratcliffe, Nigel    Factiva        Yes
Schaeck, Thomas     IBM            Yes
Shumakher, Gennady  SAP            No
Smith, Steven       Capitol College     Yes
Tamari, Yossi       SAP Portals         Yes           
Tayar, Gil          WebCollage          Yes           
Thompson, Rich      IBM            Yes           
van Lydegraf, Eric  Kinzan         Yes           
Young, Michael Plumtree       No       
Wiecha, Charles     IBM            Yes           

Members on Leave of Absence:
Filicetti, Gino          Bowstreet No
Mitsuoka, Madoka    Fujitsu        No
Palas, Petr         Moravia IT     No
Ramesh, Raj         CommerceOne    No
Reshef, Eilon       WebCollage     No
Rudnicki, Joe       U.S. Navy No

Prospective Members:
Batra, Atul         Sun Microsystems    Yes

Non-Voting Members:
Martin, Monica Drake Certivo  Yes

24 of 30 voting members present.  Quorum is present for meeting.

We will vote on a new secretary today before going to lunch.  He or 
she will start with the next
phone meeting.  New secretary is Dan Machak.

First we revisit issue #123 about inconsistency in ResourceList handling
      Proposed resolution:
      - Appears only in directly returned structures
      - Drop from PortletDescription and ModelDescription
      - Add structures PortletDescriptionResponse and 
      -> No objections

Rich will go through all the change requests, ordered by page number 
in the specification.

Summary of Actions - In numerical order by decision:

No Objections - Resolutions stated in Rich's Emails (notes about 
changes made in meeting)

      Change Requests
      #15 - Text fixed same way as #58
      #16 (affected by #57)
      #25 - (1) Add sentence to 6.1.8 & similar wording to 6.8 and 6.9
           (2) Move userAuthentication from markupParams to UserContext
      #28 - Add "Note that the use of such technologies does not 
relieve the need for a Portlet"
      #29 - Drop second sentence & make first sentence say the right thing
      #45 - mimeAttributes instead of mimeHeaders
      #46 - Include newState (change from Required to Optional)
      #48 - Drop Security.AuthenticationFailure
      #51 - Add editorial text to clarify extensions
      #54 - Change "An opaque string, unique within the 
registrationContext, which the
Consumer MAY ..."
      #57 (also effects #16)
      #73 - Add Interface.InvalidSession fault and text (similar to 
invalidCookie fault)
      #88 - Change to "client-side scripting and XForms are examples 
of technologies..."
      #90 - Drop all but first sentence
      #91 - Drop "WSIA and" & Change to "WSRP protocol operates over 
      #117 (also see Other Actions)
      #120 - Change to "when a transient item is created" & drop 
parenthetical phrase

Tentatively Resolved
      Change Requests
      #37 - Rich will develop description (see #86)
      #86 - Rich will develop description (see #37)

  Leave As Is
      Change Requests
      #41 - Handled by earlier resolution

Revisit for Version 2
      Change Requests

Other Actions
      #4 - Rich will send Gil an email about not doing the change
      #71 - Andre will write proposed text and where it should be in the spec
      #78 - Referred to WSDL subgroup
      #117 - Sasha will write description of what an end-user can do 
without explicitly
mentioning the operations


Meet tomorrow at 9:00am Pacific

Wednesday dinner reservation at 8:00pm (restaurant had other groups 
ahead of us)

Meeting ended at 4:56pm Pacific

Minutes 28 January 2003

Meeting started 9:18am Pacific Time

No attendance taken.  Quorum determined by headcount of attendees in 
meeting room and
Charles Wiecha on the phone (24 of 30).

No objections
      Change Requests
      #5 - Edit to remove security aspect & move to Appendix B
      #7 - Alternative: Editorial change to improve wording
      #13 - Alternative: Left justify
      #20 - covered by #101
      #37 - Rich's new text accepted
      #49 - Keep Security.AccessDenied
      #50 - Clarify text
      #63 - covered in rewording
      #64 - Add portlet URL parameters
      #66 - Remove first two sentences & re-word third sentence (new 
first sentence).
      #69 - Clarify recommendation about cookies and secure vs 
non-secure. Include reference
to RFC
      #84 - Note that changing a property's value could impact the 
value of Portlet's properties.
      #85 - Alternate: Make a required field, both wsrp-url and 
wsrp-rewriteResource when
urltype="Resource" & dropping second sentence.  Clarify first sentence.
      #86 - (see #37)
      #101 - Leave "system entity" (see Other)
      #102 - Check to see if really needed in spec
      #105 - Alternative: change style to table and make it part of 
Chapter 4. Just lists the data
types (alphabetically) with hyperlinks to the correct sections. 
State that Chapter 4 is non-
      #106 - Change systematically throughout the specification
           - customize => end-user (logically) sourced settings
           - personalize => system sourced settings
      #107 - Change throughout spec
      #110 - Text as amended
      #116 - Alternative: Remove term from glossary.  Add hyperlinks 
to spec for this and
XML.  Change "a collection of names to "a name".  Make verbs singular.
      #124 - Recommend first 127 characters of Unicode characterset 
and warn about not
following recommendation could lead to data loss
      #127 - Add: Add fields in RuntimeContext for namespace prefix 
and templates (from

Keep As Is

      Change Requests
      #4 - Change from Other (27 January 2003 minutes)
      #81 - Drop Security.AccessDenied fault
      #97 (see Other)
      #113 - Term deleted in #101
      #114 - Term deleted in #101

Revisit for Version 2
      Change Requests

      Change Requests
      #97 - Mike will contact JSR168 to request they synchronize case with WSRP
      #101 - Rich will clarify text on Producer scope for Producer 
Offered Portlet


Producer Demo by Gil Tayar

Discussion about WSDL group meeting on CDATA
- No CDATA type in WSDL spec
- Use ANY type for CDATA?
- XML parser understands CDATA (2.7 - <element><![CDATA[some_data]]></element>)
- Have to do custom serializers and deserializers

Discussion about WSRP and JSR168 (Change Request #71)
- Blocking and Non-Blocking actions
- getMarkup, navigationalState, performInteraction, action-urls
- JSR168 face-to-face meeting next week

Agenda change - move some Thursday items to tomorrow

No Objections to making editorial changes to values to match camel case.

IBM is in the process to provide IPR (intellectual property rights) 
statement dealing with WSRP
on a reciprocal royalty free licence.

WebCollage will write a statement on relevant IPR when they receive 
IBM's statement.

OASIS Specification Process (Summary)
1. Vote in committee on completed specification (2/3 yes and less than 1/4 no)
2. Goes to 30-day public comment
3. Collect comments and meet to decide on changes and vote on 
modified specification
4. Another 30-day public comments (if committee makes what it thinks 
are major changes)
5. Have at least 3 separate, independent implementations
6. Submit to OASIS for review and approval for making a standard
7. TC required to review if there are any negative votes from OASIS

Bill will send to email references to time limits for the 
specification process.

Next milestones:
- Consensus that technical content is what we want (is it ready for 
public review)
- IPR clarified
- Successful vote on the spec

Committee Schedule
Corrected spec will be ready by Wednesday of next week. (Feb 5)
Review period for 3 weeks - make change requests (until Feb 26)
Meet by phone after review period (Feb 27)
Update the spec (March 3)
Final review period - 3 weeks (until March 24)
Final spec (March 27)
Vote on spec (as soon as possible after final spec)

Bill Cox moved that we accept the proposed schedule.  Seconded by 
Sasha Aickin.  Passes
without dissent.
Discussion on next face-to-face meeting
- 3rd week of May
- In Europe (UK or Germany)
- Will discuss later

Meeting ended 5:20pm (Pacific)

Minutes for WSRP Face-to-Face Meeting 29 January, 2003

Meeting started 9:07am Pacific

No attendance taken.  19 present in room with 2 on phone.

Revised Agenda
1. Alignment with Emerging Web Standards - slide show by Rich
2. Interoperability Activities - slide show by Richard
3. General Directions for WSRP - discussion lead by Thomas
4. Cross-WSRP Service Eventing by Portals - slide show by Rich and Charlie
5. Finalize WSRP Specification

All slide show presentations will be posted on the WSRP website.

WSDL subgroup schedule - Richard
Establish interoperability matrix - 15 April
Form a Compliance Test subgroup
Draft Compliance Test - 15 March
Final Compliance Test - May

Discussion on how testing could be done.  Remote debugging has some 
difficulty - can be done in
coordinated fashion by conference call and desktop sharing.  Also can 
do face-to-face meetings
with developers.

Discussion on interoperability testing and developing a compliance test.
- Interoperability testing is separate from developing a compliance test.
- Develop and post a matrix of vendor Producer/Consumer level of 
interoperability (red, yellow,
- Once a compliance test is available, do not need to do 
point-to-point interoperability testing.

Subgroups should be open to non-TC members.  Let anyone who wants to 
participate in the
interoperability testing join in.  Need to set up a procedure so 
vendors know who is doing
interoperability testing with their Producer/Consumer.

Thomas said that work with Apache will be sent to WSRP around 15 
February and to the open
source community at the end of February/beginning of March.

Create new subgroups:

*-> Interoperability Testing Subgroup
Members: Mike, Alan, Richard, Andre, Nigel, Subbu, Gil(?)

*-> Compliance Test Subgroup
Members: Richard, Ross, Dan, Rich

*-> SOAP/DIME Attachments (v1.1) Subgroup
Organize: Andre
Members: Mike/David, Subbu, Rich, Richard, Chris
Meet: Wednesday, 7am PST/10am EST/4pm CET
Draft in October 2003

*-> Publisher/Find/Bind Subgroup
Organize: Alan
Members: Richard, Yossi, Mike, Andre
Meet: Thursday, 8am PST/11am EST/5pm CET

*-> Eventing Subgroup
Organize: Rich
Members: Yossi, Ross, Dan, Charlie, Mike
Meet: Wednesday, 9am PST/12pm EST/6pm CET

*-> Markup Subgroup
Organize: (open)
Members: Steven, Chris, Andre, Ross, [IBM Voice XML person]
Meet: Wednesdays, 8am PST/11am EST/5pm CET

Whole TC will work on performance optimization for v1.1.  May break 
out subgroups later.

Too early to form subgroup on Alignment with Emerging Standards.

We should form liaisons with other groups , including language runtimes.

Next Face-to-Face meeting will be May 12-14.  Not decided where as 
yet.  Two possible
locations: Boeblingen (IBM) and Grenoble (Sun Microsystems).

Finalize Specification
Resolved - Move list from Chapter 4 and put in an appendix as an index.

Tentative Resolve -#71 Modified wording provided by Andre.  Move some 
of the information to
the Primer.  Andre will draft a section for the Primer on issues with 
pushing persistent state to the

Walkthrough Faults:
- Section 5 getServiceDescription.  - OK.
- Section 6.2 getMarkup. Looked Interface.Unsupported{something}. - OK
- Section 6.3.1 performInteraction - OK
- Section 6.3.2 performBlockingInteraction - OK
- Section 6.4 initCookie - remove Interface.InvalidHandle
- Section 6.5 releaseSessions - remove Interface.InvalidHandle
- Section 7.2 register - remove Security.AccessDenied
- Section 7.3 modifyRegistration - OK
- Section 7.4 deregister - OK
- Section 8.2 getPortletDescription - OK
- Section 8.3 clonePortlet - remove Interface.NoCloneGenerated
- Section 8.4 destroyPortlets - remove Security.AccessDenied
- Section 8.5 setPortletProperties - OK
- Section 8.6 getPortletProperties - OK
- Section 8.7 getPortletProperties - OK

#New Issue - when browser and cache do not agree (invalid cache). 
That could have two
different getMarkups with the same parameters.
- Proposal: performInteraction or performBlockingInteraction that do 
not return a different
navigational state should cause the Consumer to treat that markup 
from that portlet as if the
expires duration has elapsed.

IPR IBM update: will be posted on the OASIS website soon.

Meeting ended 3:00pm

Rex Brooks
Starbourne Communications Design
1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA 94702 *510-849-2309
http://www.starbourne.com * rexb@starbourne.com

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