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Subject: RE: [wsrf] Singleton Resource Pattern
- From: "Sedukhin, Igor S" <Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com>
- To: "Rich Thompson" <richt2@us.ibm.com>,<wsrf@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:10:29 -0400
But why does such "reference to a resource" have anything
to do with the ability to retreive a property value?
I think there are two distinct "faetures"
here:
1) common definition of a "reference to a
resource"
2) "properties" capability
Both could be combined, but also stand alone. Both have
distinct semantics and distinct value for Web services
implementations.
Therefore in my use case I used 2) and not necessarily
1).
The way the WS-RF is today: 1) and 2) are
inseparable.
-- Igor
Sedukhin .. (igor.sedukhin@ca.com)
-- (631) 342-4325 .. 1 CA Plaza,
Islandia, NY 11788
I think the question is whether each
such service MUST define its own way of indicating such a reference or can there
be value in defining a standardized means that a service MAY exploit if it
chooses to. The fact that certain situations may call for a different form of
reference being preferred doesn't negate the value of a shared definition of how
to provide such a reference.
Rich
Thompson
OASIS WSRP TC Chair
"Sedukhin, Igor S"
<Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com>
07/12/2004 03:50 PM
|
To
| Rich
Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, <wsrf@lists.oasis-open.org>
|
cc
|
|
Subject
| RE: [wsrf] Singleton
Resource Pattern |
|
Why is X.509 certificate in a WS-Security header not a
sufficient means for referring to a proper "user" database record?
The
property is shared, there is one service, and there are multiple "records". Why
can't I use WS-ResorceProperties spec to access UserName property without having
to deal with stateful/stateless situation?
It seems that ANYTHING in a message (body
or a header) could be such "stateID". There may be no reason to set in stone
what that is. Leave it to the implementers.
-- Igor
Sedukhin .. (igor.sedukhin@ca.com)
--
(631)
342-4325 .. 1 CA Plaza, Islandia, NY 11788
From: Rich Thompson [mailto:richt2@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:40 PM
To:
wsrf@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wsrf] Singleton Resource
Pattern
But
with the stateless character of web services, that UserName property would be
shared by all users of the web service. There may be some usefulness to that,
but it becomes far more useful when the web service interface fronts access to a
multiplicity of state, each storing such a property.
To make this a concrete
example, presume the UserName property is really a reference to a field in a
database. One could provide a separate web service interface for each record
within the database, but it would be a much lighter (and frequently more useful)
definition if there was a single web service interface that had some well
defined means for indicating what record of the database was the target of the
current invocation. WSRP had this type of need and had to define a means that is
idiosyncratic to our protocol for passing the stateful reference. Defining a
standardized means by which infrastructure can take more of the load for
handling such references is one of the outcomes I would like to see from the
WSRF effort.
Rich Thompson
OASIS WSRP TC Chair
"Sedukhin, Igor S"
<Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com>
07/12/2004 03:15 PM
|
To
| Rich
Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS,
<wsrf@lists.oasis-open.org>
|
cc
|
|
Subject
| RE: [wsrf] Singleton
Resource Pattern |
|
Like I said,
GetProperty would mean for example:...
Web Service implements a
UserName property. Client sends a GetResourceProperty SOAP message with
WS-Security headers containing X.509 certificate. Web Service returns the
UserName after matching the certificate.
-- Igor
Sedukhin .. (igor.sedukhin@ca.com)
--
(631)
342-4325 .. 1 CA Plaza, Islandia, NY 11788
From: Rich Thompson [mailto:richt2@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:03 PM
To:
wsrf@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wsrf] Singleton Resource
Pattern
What
would get/setProperty mean against the standard stateless character of the base
Web Services definition? Before these become useful, you need some manner of
modeling state. It seems to me the primary thrust behind defining WSRF is having
a standard definition of how to model such stateful web services and as someone
who has needed to idiosyncratically model state within the WSRP protocol, I see
a lot of value in that effort.
Rich Thompson
OASIS WSRP TC Chair
"Sedukhin, Igor S"
<Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com>
07/12/2004 02:55 PM
|
To
| Steve
Graham/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS
|
cc
| <wsrf@lists.oasis-open.org>
|
Subject
| RE: [wsrf] Singleton
Resource Pattern |
|
Then what value
does the implied pattern add to the use case I have included?
Why does resource
pattern have to depend on WS-Addressing, EPRs and customizations of
those?
Why
can't GetProperty/SetProperety be defined independently?
-- Igor
Sedukhin .. (igor.sedukhin@ca.com)
--
(631)
342-4325 .. 1 CA Plaza, Islandia, NY 11788
From: Steve Graham [mailto:sggraham@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 2:44 PM
To: Sedukhin, Igor
S
Cc: wsrf@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wsrf]
Singleton Resource Pattern
>It seems that whether it is an "implied resource" or an
"implied singleton" has nothing to do with GetResourceProperty (GetProperty for
that sake) operation. In >other words use of WS-Addressing does not add any
semantic value to the fact that one could retrieve a property by sending a
message to a service.
Unfortunately, I disagree. The implied resource pattern
clarifies a certain pattern relating a web service and a stateful resource. It
is important that this pattern is clarified to allow a single web service to act
as the Web services message processor for a plurality of stateful resources.
Therefore the pattern of the message is formed to disambiguate which of the
potentially many stateful resources is associated with the message is very
important.
sgg
++++++++
Steve Graham
(919)254-0615 (T/L 444)
STSM, On
Demand Architecture
Member, IBM Academy of Technology
<Soli Deo
Gloria/>
++++++++
| "Sedukhin, Igor S"
<Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com>
07/12/2004 11:56 AM
|
To:
Steve Graham/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS,
<wsrf@lists.oasis-open.org> cc:
Subject: RE: [wsrf] Singleton
Resource Pattern |
Steve,
Your example was interesting. How about this one:
Web Service implements a
UserName property. Client sends a GetResourceProperty SOAP message with
WS-Security headers containing X.509 certificate. Web Service returns the
UserName after matching the certificate.
-- Is this a singleton or an implied resource
pattern? One could claim that there is a user resource, however this interaction
does not use WS-Addressing and moreover it would not be possible to build WS-RF
qualified EPRs for such interaction.
The same use case could be modified to include
UserDiskQuota property, and the same argument would apply.
It seems that whether it is an
"implied resource" or an "implied singleton" has nothing to do with
GetResourceProperty (GetProperty for that sake) operation. In other words use of
WS-Addressing does not add any semantic value to the fact that one could
retrieve a property by sending a message to a service.
-- Igor
Sedukhin .. (igor.sedukhin@ca.com)
--
(631)
342-4325 .. 1 CA Plaza, Islandia, NY 11788
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