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Subject: Minutes of telecon held on 22 August



Minutes are stored here:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/14260/WSRF%20TC%20%5B22Aug05%5D%20notes%5B1%5D.pdf

and attached

(See attached file: WSRF TC [22Aug05] notes[1].htm)

Regards, Tim Banks.
Title: WSRF TC notes

Notes from the OASIS WSRF TC teleconference
22nd August 2005

Roll Call

 

The roll call is kept on the TC web site under the meeting record.

See http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrf/event.php?event_id=7743

 

 

 

Confirm minute taker

Tim Banks is taking the minutes.

 

 

Approve of minutes of August 8th Telecon

 

See: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/13996

 

There were no comments and no objects to approving the minutes.

 
Call for AOB

 

None.

 

Action Review

(TomM) Post revised draft of RMD specification. Carried Fwd from July 25th.
(TomM) Write new text for resolution to issue wsrf 118. (cut/copy/paste for RMD to go in AppNotes.) Carried Fwd from June 27th.
(
Bryan) Move issue 123 to Closed.  Done

(Bryan) Move issue 138 Open. Done

(DaveS) Investigate the implications of the resolution of issue 137 to make MemberserviceEPR optional. Work on precise language with Tom. Carry Fwd

(Bryan) Move issue 137 to resolved. Incorporate any implications for the spec from Dave/Tom.  Carry Fwd

(IanR) Produce detailed resolution text for issue 127.  Done


New issues to consider - Bryan

Issue WSRF139: Number of messages needed to retrieve the content of a service group

See email:  http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrf/email/archives/200508/msg00017.html

 

(William) This is about a simple service group that needs to send a lot of messages to gather information.

(DaveS) Is this a reasonable issue?  Does any object to opening it?  Ian’s response that it may be two issues: simplifying the model, and removing the statement about authoritative membership.

(William) So this is about the number of messages, concerned with the authoritative way to determine membership.

(DaveS)  So this sounds like an issue, well discuss splitting when we discuss in detail.

Action (Bryan) Move to open.


WSRF140: Constraints on use of schema for resource properties document
See
 http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrf/email/archives/200508/msg00022.html

(Bryan) There is a list of rules restricting the definition WS Resource RP documents.  We should be more liberal so that existing apps don’t have to change their xml.

(DaveS) Ian pointed out that we need to think about happens if a document has stuff preceding the first qnamed property (rule 4).

(Bryan) We already have ways of retrieving partial documents.  It’s a question of what is needed, if qnamed properties are needed, the app should do that, but we should not insist on it.

(DaveS) We need to figure what happens with commands that respond with qnames.

(Bryan) Yes, we would need to discuss that.

(DaveS) Why could we not wrap the xml document inside a single ResourceProperty? 

(BryanM) That seems to be a wrapper simply for the sake of the wrapper. Also what’s the point of getResourcePropertyDocument?

(DaveS) This comes down to whether exploitation of WSRF needs the introduction of ResourceProperties, like lifetime, anyway.

Action (Bryan) Move the issue to open.

 

 


Issue review - Chair

WSRF118: How do you cut/copy/paste portions of metadata from other interfaces into a new metadata document
(DaveS) We need to postpone this as Tom is not on the call.

 

WSRF127: PR Comment – Why MUST for “Resource Action Pattern”?

Emails were posted (see http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrf/email/archives/200508/msg00020.html)

(DaveS) This removes the definition of “ResourceAccess Pattern” in favour of referring to a WS Resource defined by the WS Resource spec.  This addresses the issue raised in the public comment.

(William) I was looking at the definition of WS Resource (several bullet points). Ian explained why the first two bullets are needed, but still I don’t agree: WS Addressing says that the messages must put the reference parameters in the message to identify the resource.

(DaveS) So the bullet is ensuring that the WS Addressing binding has the parameters.

(William) Repeating the information for the sake of clarifying is bad practice in normative specs.

(DaveS) I’m inclined to agree, unless this is absent from the WS Addressing core.  If it’s only in the SOAP binding then we still need this text, to protect ourselves against other bindings.

(William) Surely a new binding wouldn’t ignore the reference parameters:  that would be a broken binding.

(DaveS) I propose we delete the second bullet, and put a note in the public comment response that we are relying on the behaviour of WS Addressing bindings.

(William) That would be true of any use of EPRs. I second the proposal.

(DaveS) Any objections to accepting Ian’s proposal of August 12, but with the removal of bullet 2, and adding a note in the PR response to explain that we need the binding to contain the identifier as reference parameters in both reference and messages.

No Objections.


WSRF130: PR Comment – fault for operation not supported

(TimB) This asks for a universal fault that reports if an operation is not supported.

(DaveS)  This would be used if a client discovered a WS Resource, but did not look at the WSDL.  For OGSA basic profile, there is a ResourceProperty to describe the portTypes that are supported, thus avoiding issuing unsupported operations without bothering with WSDL.

(TimB) I propose that we don’t change anything because the information is in the WSDL; we should not change the specs.

(William) Seconded.

(DaveS) This is supported by binding-level messages, and by application-level information in more dynamic environments.

Action: (Bryan) Move to closed, no action.  With explanation.

 

WSRF131: PR Comment – correct use of MAY in GetMultipleResourceProperties
(TimB) This is about line 566 in wsrf-rp. The components of the request message are  optional in the schema.

(DaveS) Could we simply delete the sentence?  Or would we lose the normative statement altogether, since the pseudo-schema above line 566 is non-normative - our precedence rules make the text normative.  We can close with no action, but explain the importance of this normative text to ensure that the component may be included.

No objections.

Action: (Bryan)  Move to closed, no action.  With explanation.

 

 

WSRF132: PR Comment – how does permission to access a property affect the response of GetMultipleResourceProperties?

(TimB) This is a question about a property which is defined as minoccurs=0 but which exists in the instance document, but the requester doesn’t have permission to see it.

(IanR) I don’t think minoccurs makes any difference.  The property exists, but it can’t be shown. The request must fail.

(DaveS) The text says that if the response message can’t be returned, it must fault. So the answer to the issue is that it must fault, but we need to clarify that the correct response contains all the elements that should be returned, and if not than a fault is required. We deliberately don’t say what the fault is.

(Ian) I propose this is the resolution, but we need to clarify that if there is a correct response then all of the elements that should be returned have been.

(DaveS) The need for this clarification probably exists else where. This is a change compared to OGSA where security permissions silently filtered the information presented back to the requester. Is there a seconder for Ian’s proposal?

(TimB) Seconded.

Action (Bryan) Move to resolved with two consequences: a) Spec changes are needed to clarify the text in the response to getMultipleResources (all properties that are present in the RPdoc must be returned else a fault) and b) check whether this ambiguity doesn’t exist elsewhere.

 

 
WSRF133: PR Comment – clarify the fault to be returned when a request specifies a QName that cannot exist in the resource property document

(IanR) The issue says a fault is needed, but why doesn’t it say which one? It could respond with InvalidResourcePropertyQname.

(DaveS) Or a fault derived from InvalidResourcePropertyQname.

(IanR) We haven’t used that kind of language elsewhere.

(DaveS) But it is implied by the definition of the fault.

(IanR) I propose that we adopt this suggestion and specify the fault explicitly.

(DaveS) Yes and the name of the fault is text is out of step with the schema – it should be InvalidResourcePropertyQnameFault.

(Agreed)

(DaveS) That’s the proposal, any objections?

None.

Action:  (Bryan) Move to resolved.



AOB

(TimB) Is the next phone call on Sept 5th

(JemT) That is Labour day in the US.

(DaveS) And the preceding week is a holiday in the Uk. We could cancel this phone call since we are in good shape. Any objections?

None.

Action: Cancel phone call on 5th Sept. Next meeting is 12th Sept in London.

 

Straggler Roll Call & Close


Closed
13:30 Eastern time

 

Summary of actions

 

 

(TomM) Post revised draft of RMD specification. Carried Fwd from July 25th.
(TomM) Write new text for resolution to issue wsrf 118. (cut/copy/paste for RMD to go
in AppNotes.) Carried Fwd from June 27th.

(DaveS) Investigate the implications of the resolution of issue 137 to make MemberserviceEPR optional. Work on precise language with Tom. Carried fwd from 8th Aug.

(Bryan) Move issue 137 to resolved. Incorporate any implications for the spec from Dave/Tom.  Carried fwd from 8th Aug.

(Bryan) Move issue 139 to ‘open’.

(Bryan) Move issue 140 to ‘open’.

(Bryan) Move issue 127 to ‘resolved’ based on IanR’s proposal of August 12, but with the removal of bullet 2 from the definition of WS Resource.

(Bryan) Move issue 130 to closed, no action.  With explanation.

(Bryan) Move issue 131 to closed, no action.  With explanation.

(Bryan) Move issue 132 to resolved, with explanation and action to check for other cases of the same ambiguity in returning fault vs complete RPDoc.

(Bryan) Move issue 133 to resolved.

 



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