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Subject: RE: [wsrm] Need to rethink semantics of duplicate elimination behaviour


Typical firewall setting for tcp session timeout is an hour or so.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Rutt [mailto:tom@coastin.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:01 PM
> To: Sunil Kunisetty
> Cc: wsrm
> Subject: Re: [wsrm] Need to rethink semantics of duplicate elimination
> behaviour
> 
> 
> Sunil Kunisetty wrote:
> 
> > Tom,
> >
> > This semantics will be very confusing as it will result in 
> DuplicateMessage
> > fault (which indirectly indicates an Ack.) before the 
> actual Ack. itself.
> >
> But I think this is a consequence of our new semantics of 
> acknowldegment 
> awaiting delivery.
> 
> If a sender resends a message which is being held wating for a prior 
> message, what should
> the receiver do?    He is holding the ack to the original 
> http request 
> for that messageID, what
> does he do for the new http request which is duplicate due to 
> retry?   I 
> say the receiver gives
> a fault message as http response to the second http request with info 
> that the original request
> was received, but its response is being held due to wating 
> for a prior 
> message.
> 
> There are two http requests outstanding from the sender, and 
> the fact is 
> that the second
> http request is responded first with a fault (which is really a reply 
> with information about
> the status of the message) message.  Later, when delivered, 
> the receiver 
> returns a response to
> the original http request with an ack.
> 
> Note that the first http request could wait a long time for a 
> response.  
> If the TCP connection
> goes down, what does HTTP do to get the response back to the sender?
> 
> Tom Rutt
> 
> PS: this discussion is about a potential new issue, and is 
> not part of 
> 52/57 resolution.
> 
> 
> >
> > Take the case of ordered group in which msg. 2 was missing 
> and msg. 3
> > of received. Since it is not delivered, it will not be 
> Ack-ed. Assume
> > your new proposal. If msg. 3 is tried, a NewDuplicateMsg 
> fault will be
> > sent. Assume 2 was finally delivered. Then the receiver 
> will send the
> > original Ack...
> >
> > For Sender, it will be very confusing to receive the Ack. 
> AFTER receiving
> > a DuplicateMsg. fault.
> >
> > -Sunil
> >
> >Tom Rutt wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Based on our current thinking, we are not sending an ack until the
> >>message is actually delivered.
> >>
> >>Thus in the ordered delivery held waiting for prior message 
> state, an
> >>RMP may receive several
> >>retransmits of that held, and thus not acknowledged message.
> >>
> >>In such a case, the receiving rmp should respond to sending rmp
> >>regarding its receipt of the duplicate message with an appropirate
> >>DuplicateMessage fault.
> >>
> >>Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think we need to clean up the
> >>semantics of this from what is in the current draft.
> >>
> >>Tom Rutt
> >>
> >>--
> >>----------------------------------------------------
> >>Tom Rutt                email: tom@coastin.com; 
> trutt@fsw.fujitsu.com
> >>Tel: +1 732 801 5744          Fax: +1 732 774 5133
> >>
> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from 
> the roster of the OASIS TC), go to 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrm/members/leav
> e_workgroup.php.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from 
> the roster of the OASIS TC), go to 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrm/members/leav
> e_workgroup.php.
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Tom Rutt		email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@fsw.fujitsu.com
> Tel: +1 732 801 5744          Fax: +1 732 774 5133
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from 
> the roster of the OASIS TC), go to 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrm/members/leav
> e_workgroup.php.
> 
> 


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