Re: [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding getPortletDescription()

[Subbu Allamaraju <subbu@bea.com>]

Since I raised this, I will pick it up.

Subbu

Rich Thompson wrote:

> 
> This is a much narrower question, but definitely worthy of addressing as 
> we approach v2. Any volunteers to draft a Feature Proposal for 
> retrieving a single, but full portlet description (i.e. independent of 
> UserContext)?
> 
> Rich
> 
> 
> *"Coco, Christopher" <Christopher.Coco@vignette.com>*
> 
> 06/03/2004 08:44 PM
> 
> 	
> To
> 	"Michael Freedman" <Michael.Freedman@oracle.com>, 
> <wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>
> cc
> 	
> Subject
> 	RE: [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding getPortletDescription()
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wondered the same, but it was agreed some time ago that a null 
> userContextKey was
> meant to be a guest user and the Producer would respond as such.
>  
> Christopher
> -----Original Message-----*
> From:* Michael Freedman [mailto:Michael.Freedman@oracle.com]*
> Sent:* Thursday, June 03, 2004 5:35 PM*
> To:* wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org*
> Subject:* Re: [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding getPortletDescription()
> 
> I forget, can  the consumer pass a null userContext to 
> getPortletDescription to "guarantee" the same semantic as calling 
> getServiceDescription?  If a userContext must be passed we may have just 
> invented a difference in the meaning of passing a null userContextKey vs 
> wsrp:minimal.
>     -Mike-
> 
> Coco, Christopher wrote:
> Like Subbu said, right now if a Consumer wants to reread the portlet 
> description
> for a POP, they have to get the entire ServiceDescription and search for 
> the POP's
> portlet description. While it seems nice to say that we expect the 
> Consumer to
> cache the ServiceDescription and thus not request it very often, the use 
> cases
> we are talking about are not when the Consumer just wants the 
> ServiceDescription
> for the sake of getting the ServiceDescription. There are more times 
> when the
> Consumer wants to update only some subset of POPs metadata, and because 
> of the
> issues Scott has raised (the getPortletDescription() is sensitive to the 
> UserContext),
> if the Consumer wants the "full" POP description it must request the entire
> ServiceDescription again as this is assured to have the "full" POP 
> description.
>  
> Getting the "full" POP description from the ServiceDescription seems to 
> be inefficient
> and it would be better if the Consumer could request the "full" POP 
> description by
> using the getPortletDescription() call (i.e. irrespective of a user).
>  
> Christopher
> -----Original Message-----*
> From:* Michael Freedman [_mailto:Michael.Freedman@oracle.com_]*
> Sent:* Thursday, June 03, 2004 4:07 PM*
> To:* _wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org_ 
> <mailto:wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>*
> Subject:* Re: [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding getPortletDescription()
> 
> First off on the question of  "This makes me wonder if I should 
> completely ignore what’s found in the ServiceDescription to avoid using 
> incorrect information."  I would advise the opposite. 
>  getServiceDescription() defines the complete function of a portlet.  If 
> you are choosing to pass the additional context information to 
> getPortletDescription() then you are in effect checking with the 
> producer what subset of this complete function this particular context 
> can use.  Because all producers must be defensive an assume they will be 
> called to do things in inappropriate contexts a consumer can safely try 
> any operation directly [without checking first] and then deal with the 
> resulting fault/denial.  And given getPortletDescription is an extra 
> roundtrip in general its more advisable to not call it and just try the 
> operation.  That being said there may be some circumstances in some 
> consumers where its considered important to prevent the user from 
> invoking function that isn't available -- for example one might want to 
> restrict the view of a toolbox of portlets that can be added to a "page" 
> to only those portlets this user can access/see.  This feature allows us 
> to meet this type of [hopefully limited] use case.
> 
> As for the comments about cumbersome, can you describe the use cases 
> that are making this cumbersome?  I recall we expected the consumer 
> would [generally] be caching this information hence 
> getServiceDescription would not be called very often.  
>     -Mike-
> 
> Coco, Christopher wrote:
> I agree that this process is cumbersome and not necessarily desirable.
> 
> Christopher
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Subbu Allamaraju [_mailto:subbu@bea.com_]
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 2:21 PM
> To: _wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org_ 
> <mailto:wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject: Re: [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding
> getPortletDescription()
> 
> 
> This is a good point, and I agree that there is scope for confusion.
> 
> On a related note, based on the implementation experience, I wish there
> is a getPortletDescription operation on the Service Description
> interface. Right now, if a consumer wants to find out the description of
> a POP, it must get the complete service description and look for the
> particular portlet. This is cumbersome for both the consumer and the
> producer. Did we ever discuss this during 1.0?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Subbu
> 
> Goldstein, Scott wrote:
>  
> Thanks, again, for the info Rich.
> 
> 
> 
> It might be worth considering changing the language of the
> getPortletDescription() section to clarify expected behavior.  The
> existence of the UserContext parameter together with the statements:
> 
> 
> 
> “This operation allows a Producer to provide information about the
> Portlets it offers in a contextsensitive
> 
> manner.”
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> 
> “Consumers may choose to alter how they interact with a Portlet based on
> the metadata
> 
> contained in the returned PortletDescriptionResponse.”
> 
> 
> 
> leads me to believe, as a Consumer developer, that the content returned
> from this operation will be different than that in the
> ServiceDescription.  This makes me wonder if I should completely ignore
> what’s found in the ServiceDescription to avoid using incorrect information.
> 
> 
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *From:* Rich Thompson [_mailto:richt2@us.ibm.com_]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 03, 2004 3:26 AM
> *To:* _wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org_ 
> <mailto:wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding getPortletDescription()
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Rich
> 
> *"Coco, Christopher" _<Christopher.Coco@vignette.com>_ 
> <mailto:Christopher.Coco@vignette.com>*
> 
> 06/02/2004 08:10 PM
> 
>                
> 
> To
> 
>                
> 
> "Goldstein, Scott" _<Scott.Goldstein@vignette.com>_ 
> <mailto:Scott.Goldstein@vignette.com>, Rich
> Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, _<wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>_ 
> <mailto:wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>
> 
> cc
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>                
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> 
> Subject
> 
>                
> 
> RE: [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding getPortletDescription()
> 
> 
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>                
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> 
>  From my understanding, as long as the call is for a POP as CCPs aren't
> listed in the ServiceDescription.
> 
> Christopher
> -----Original Message-----*
> From:* Goldstein, Scott *
> Sent:* Wednesday, June 02, 2004 5:08 PM*
> To:* Rich Thompson; _wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org*_ 
> <mailto:wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org*>
> Subject:* RE: [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding getPortletDescription()
> 
> Thanks for the info, Rich.
> 
> So, just to be completely clear, in the case that the metadata is not
> updated in any fashion by the producer, if I were to call
> getPortletDescription() with a UserContext containing all of the
> Producers’ user categories, I would be guaranteed to receive the same
> structure as if I had called getServiceDescription().  Correct?
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> *From:* Rich Thompson [_mailto:richt2@us.ibm.com_] *
> Sent:* Wednesday, June 02, 2004 8:57 AM*
> To:* _wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org*_ 
> <mailto:wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org*>
> Subject:* Re: [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding getPortletDescription()
> 
> 
> Thanks for your persistence ... sometimes as we get busy we hope that
> others will supply the answers :}
> 
> The data in GetPortletDescriptionResponse is the same that is included
> in the array returned by getServiceDescription() with a few caveats. The
> data is allowed to change (portlet data updated, user access rights,
> etc) and most Producers will only return data from
> getServiceDescription() for their POPs while getPortletDescription() can
> be invoked against any portletHandle.
> 
> Rich
> 
> *"Goldstein, Scott" _<Scott.Goldstein@vignette.com>_ 
> <mailto:Scott.Goldstein@vignette.com>*
> 
> 06/02/2004 11:31 AM
> 
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> To
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> _<wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>_ 
> <mailto:wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>
> 
> cc
> 
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> Subject
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> [wsrp-interfaces] Questions regarding getPortletDescription()
> 
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> 
> I haven’t received a reply to my message I sent out last week, so I
> thought I would try to resend it.  If you have any answers to the
> questions below, please reply.  Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the following questions regarding the getPortletDescription()
> operation:
> 
> 1.        How does the data returned in the PortletDescriptionResponse
> relate to the portlet description contained within the
> ServiceDescription?  Must they be identical?  Or, can the producer
> change the data based on the user context.  For instance, could the
> producer not specify a particular supported mode if the user is not an
> admin?
> 2.        If the answer to #1 is that they can be different, then is
> there a way to ensure, when calling this method, that the
> PortletDescription returned would be equal to that in the
> ServiceDescription?  Perhaps by sending all of the possible User
> Categories?
> 3.        If the answer to #1 is that they must be the same, then is the
> only use of the UserContext attribute to allow the producer to throw an
> AccessDenied Fault?  Will passing all user categories avoid this?
> 
> Essentially, I’m trying to understand the intended use of
> getPortletDescription() and if it can be used as an optimization to
> update portlet meta data without having to retrieve the full service
> description.
> 
> Thanks for the information.
> 
> Scott
> 
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>