RE: [wsrp-interfaces] New Import Export document

["Tamari, Yossi" <yossi.tamari@sap.com>]

But is the state still the same as it was when copyPortlets first called? How do you do this?

	Yossi.

-----Original Message-----
From: Subbu Allamaraju [mailto:subbu@bea.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 6:42 PM
To: interfaces
Subject: Re: [wsrp-interfaces] New Import Export document

I think copyPortlets() is replayable as long as the source registration 
is still valid and the source portlets are valid in that registration.

Subbu

Tamari, Yossi wrote:
> Hi Subbu,
> 
> I think the use case document talks only about b. (quote: "the above 
> scenario assumes that each consumer environment [development, stage, 
> production] is talking to the same physical producer").
> 
> However, the second use case is not supported by the copyPortlets 
> operation, if I understand the operation correctly, since the import 
> operation should be "replayable", so one export should create a 
> "package" that can be imported many times at other consumers.
> 
>         Yossi.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Subbu Allamaraju [mailto:subbu@bea.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:57 PM
> To: interfaces
> Subject: Re: [wsrp-interfaces] New Import Export document
> 
> In the use cases document, I think we need to clearly distinguish
> between consumer-side migration issues from producer-side migration issues.
> 
> a. A Consumer customized some portlets of Producer. Producer is going
> from staging to production, while Consumer remains the same. There is a
> need to move portlet customizations across the Producers.
> 
> b. The Consumer is moving from staging to production, while the Producer
> remains the same. In this case, the new Consumer wants to retain the
> same portlet customizations in a new registration context.
> 
> If we are talking about (b), it is still not clear why a copyPortlets()
> like operation would not address it.
> 
> Subbu
> 
> 
> Rich Thompson wrote:
> 
>  >
>  > I agree that the burden of transferring portlets from one registration
>  > to another belongs at the Producer. I'm not sure what about the
>  > export/import proposal changes that. If it relates to the use of a POP
>  > handle on the import, I actually disagree that the Consumer should need
>  > to do that dereference ... it ought to be the portletHandle
>  > corresponding to the exportedState.
>  >
>  > As to the use cases (see
>  > 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrp-interfaces/download.php/5614/Portlet%20Transport.htm) 
> 
>  > that seem to favor an approach that captures a snapshot of a portlet's
>  > state:
>  > - Use case #1 refers to capturing a snapshot of a development system
>  > that is then pushed to the production system while development
>  > continues. I think it unreasonable to require the development system to
>  > remain static for whatever duration is involved in deploying the
>  > snapshot on however many production systems it impacts.
>  > - Use case #2 makes snapshots even more important as the timing for
>  > deployment of the new Consumer in unknown. Certainly development wants
>  > to continue on these systems as well.
>  >
>  > That said, import/export is not the only way to capture a snapshot.
>  > However, it is important that the solution we develop support the
>  > underlying use cases.
>  >
>  > Rich
>  >
>  >
>  > *Subbu Allamaraju <subbu@bea.com>*
>  >
>  > 07/22/2004 09:41 AM
>  >
>  >      
>  > To
>  >       Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
>  > cc
>  >       interfaces <wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>
>  > Subject
>  >       Re: [wsrp-interfaces] New Import Export document
>  >
>  >
>  >      
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I agree with Andre's suggestions, as it correctly puts the burden on the
>  > producer to transfer portlets from one registration context another
>  > another without exposing any state.
>  >
>  >  > The main difference I see between such an operation and the proposed
>  >  > export/import is that the operation references the current state of a
>  >  > portlet while export/import proposal captures a snapshot and then 
> looks
>  >  > to recreate it. For some of the use cases, I think this is an 
> important
>  >  > difference.
>  >
>  > Could you elaborate this in the context of the use case? The use case is
>  > about letting certain customized portlets be used from another consumer.
>  > Import/export may be one particular way of solving it, but not the only
>  > option, I think.
>  >
>  >  > I would suggest we not get involved in scenarios involving a 
> migration
>  >  > of the Producer as well. How would a Consumer, in general, learn the
>  >  > following scenario relative to Portlets exported from Producer1:
>  >  > - PortletA may be imported to Producer 2, but not Producer3
>  >  > - PortletB may be imported to Producer3, but not Producer2
>  >  > - None of the exported portlets may be imported to ProducerN
>  >
>  > Have we captured these with our use cases for this problem?
>  > Cross-producer import/export seems to be a new use case not discussed so
>  > far.
>  >
>  >  > With the opaque nature of exportedState, Producers can easily store
>  >  > enough information to allow automation of such cross-Producer (same
>  >  > vendor implementation) imports. Out-of-band communication to the
>  >  > Consumer of which portlets a different Producer is able to import 
> seems
>  >  > appropriate for our protocol (at least until other deployment 
> protocols
>  >  > get defined that we could leverage).
>  >  >
>  >  > Rich
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > *Andre Kramer <andre.kramer@eu.citrix.com>*
>  >  >
>  >  > 07/22/2004 06:45 AM
>  >  >
>  >  >                 
>  >  > To
>  >  >                  "'Michael Freedman'" <Michael.Freedman@oracle.com>,
>  > interfaces
>  >  > <wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org>
>  >  > cc
>  >  >                 
>  >  > Subject
>  >  >                  RE: [wsrp-interfaces] New Import Export document
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >                 
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > As Exporting / Importing state has privacy and reliability issues, 
> how
>  >  > far would the following operation go in covering the use cases?
>  >  > 
>  >  > PortletHandle newHandle = copyPortlet(PortletHandle thePortlet,
>  >  > RegistrationHandle fromRegistration, RegistrationHandle 
> toRegistration);
>  >  > 
>  >  > This would normally be called by a wsrp consumer (e.g. when a staged
>  >  > deployment goes live). I've purposely not included our 
> portletState to
>  >  > show that no data need be passed outside of the producer(s). Two
>  >  > producers could pass portlet data between themselves (using a
>  >  > proprietary API or the proposed Export/Import mechanism) if the
>  >  > registrations are on different producers.
>  >  > 
>  >  > Regards,
>  >  > Andre
>  >  > 
>  >  >
>  >  > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >  >
>  >  > *From:* Michael Freedman [mailto:Michael.Freedman@oracle.com] *
>  >  > Sent:* 22 July 2004 01:46*
>  >  > To:* interfaces*
>  >  > Subject:* [wsrp-interfaces] New Import Export document
>  >  > 
>  >  > I have rewritten the original strawman to define specific 
> import/export
>  >  > methods.  It has been _uploaded to the Interfaces documents_
>  >  >
>  > 
> <http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrp-interfaces/download.php/7861/Import_Export2.html>. 
> 
>  >
>  >  >  If you want to refer to the old version click on "Manage" to the far
>  >  > right of the document entry.  This takes you to a page where you 
> can see
>  >  > the previous revision(s).
>  >  >     -Mike-
>  >
>  >
>