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Subject: Re: [wsrp-interfaces] Should portlets/producers indicate that theypush out persistent state?


I see your point. But once the consumer encounters binary state during 
its usage of a producer, it can stop using the producer/portlet 
(hopefully after immediate cleanup).

Subbu

Richard Jacob wrote:
> no, I guess this wouldn't work.
> The assumption you make is that on the first invocation the Producer pushes
> the state, be it registration or creating a clone.
> But couldn't the push happen at a later time?
> I guess it can. Since for example the portlet might have state persistet at
> a later time than at the time clone() was invoced.
> Assume Consumer makeing a clone(), then interact. Then at some point in
> time hit edit mode and modify persistent state.
> So if you share between the cloning and the state change, the scenario is
> not implementable.
> 
> Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,
> 
>         Richard Jacob
> ______________________________________________________
> IBM Lab Boeblingen, Germany
> Dept.8288, WebSphere Portal Server Development
> WSRP Team Lead & Technical Lead
> WSRP Standardization
> Phone: ++49 7031 16-3469  -  Fax: ++49 7031 16-4888
> Email: mailto:richard.jacob@de.ibm.com
> 
> 
>                                                                            
>              Subbu Allamaraju                                              
>              <subbu@bea.com>                                               
>                                                                         To 
>              01/12/06 05:05 PM         wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.or 
>                                        g                                   
>                                                                         cc 
>                                                                            
>                                                                    Subject 
>                                        Re: [wsrp-interfaces] Should        
>                                        portlets/producers indicate that    
>                                        they push out persistent state?     
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard Jacob wrote:
>> why would it impose new rules?
>> It's just a hint for the Consumer whether it has to deal with it or not,
> if
>> it can't it can simply avoid to use such a portlet.
> 
> I agree. Let's look at what's possible today.
> 
> For registration state, the consumer would know at registration time if
> the producer returns state. If so, it can simply deregister immediately
> and avoid using it.
> 
> For portlet state, if the consumer can't deal with state, it can drop
> the CCP handle/state, and continue to use the POP handle with readOnly
> flag (to prevent future clones).
> 
>> I don't think that your conclusion is right that if the consumer can deal
>> with sharing the handles it automatically can share the state.
>> Think of the migraton scenario as an example: you copy the consumer from
>> one machine to another so the new machine has all handles available but
> of
>> course has no synch between the two in any way.
> 
> My argument is that it is possible to implement a consumer that can
> share the handles and state without such a hint. A consumer dealing with
> both 1.0 and 2.0 producers (assuming that we add such a flag in 2.0)
> will have to design for such a sync anyway.
> 
> Subbu
> 
>> Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,
>>
>>         Richard Jacob
>> ______________________________________________________
>> IBM Lab Boeblingen, Germany
>> Dept.8288, WebSphere Portal Server Development
>> WSRP Team Lead & Technical Lead
>> WSRP Standardization
>> Phone: ++49 7031 16-3469  -  Fax: ++49 7031 16-4888
>> Email: mailto:richard.jacob@de.ibm.com
>>
>>
>>
> 
>>              Subbu Allamaraju
> 
>>              <subbu@bea.com>
> 
> To
>>              01/12/06 04:24 PM
> wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.or
>>                                        g
> 
> cc
> 
> Subject
>>                                        Re: [wsrp-interfaces] Should
> 
>>                                        portlets/producers indicate that
> 
>>                                        they push out persistent state?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>
>>
>>
>> I see the use cases, but I wonder if a consumer supporting both WSRP 1.0
>> and 2.0 can count on using such a flag.
>>
>> Secondly, from a specification point of view, such a flag would impose
>> new rules on producers counting on pushing state to consumers as and
>> when required.
>>
>> You mentioned sharing handles below. If a consumer is able to share
>> handles (including cloned portletHandles) across different instances, it
>> can share the state as well.
>>
>> Subbu
>>
>> Richard Jacob wrote:
>>> I have a question regarding persistent state pushing to the Consumer.
>>> This can either be the state in the RegistrationContext or in the
>>> PortletContext.
>>> Currently the Producer can push its state whenever it likes to, and the
>>> Consumer requires to handle it accordingly (return it back, persist it).
>>>
>>> Shouldn't we have metadate that indicates the Producer/Portlets
>> preference
>>> to push out state?
>>> In that case the Consumer can choose to not use such a portlet.
>>> I see two use cases for it:
>>> 1.) the Consumer can't/doesn't want to persist the data be it for
>>> technical/resource reasons or legal/privacy reasons
>>> 2.) the Consumer "shares" the handles with another Consumer/Machine. We
>>> discussed such scenarios when we discussed import/export.
>>> From the Producer's perspective this is still the same Consumer (unless
>>> some security mechanism says otherwise), so protocol-wise this is
>> perfectly
>>> legal.
>>> However if the Producer chooses to push out persistent state, such
>>> scenarios won't work unless the different "Consumers" sync themselves in
>>> some manner.
>>>
>>> So what I'm asking for is basically two things:
>>> 1.) add metadata to the ServiceDesc saying that the registrationContext
>>> might contain state
>>> 2.) add metadata to the PortletDesc saying that the portlet intends to
>> push
>>> out state in the PortletContext
>>>
>>> Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,
>>>
>>>         Richard Jacob
>>> ______________________________________________________
>>> IBM Lab Boeblingen, Germany
>>> Dept.8288, WebSphere Portal Server Development
>>> WSRP Team Lead & Technical Lead
>>> WSRP Standardization
>>> Phone: ++49 7031 16-3469  -  Fax: ++49 7031 16-4888
>>> Email: mailto:richard.jacob@de.ibm.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 



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