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Subject: Re: [wsrp-wsia] Roles
How roles are mapped is clear (an admin does the mapping), what is not clear is the idea of automatic mapping (without admin intervention). IMO, not having a solution for this automatic mapping is not an argument for dropping all concept of roles from the spec. Alejandro Rich Thompson wrote: > > > > > What I am saying is that we either need to clearly define the semantics > (including how roles can be mapped when there is no match in the > granularity of role definitions) or drop all concept of roles from the > spec. Note that the later case does not eliminate using roles when both > sides agree on how to do this (e.g. JSR109), but rather leaves this area to > other specifications the end-points also choose to support. > > > > > Alejandro > Abdelnur To: > <alejandro.abdeln cc: wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org > ur@sun.com> Subject: Re: [wsrp-wsia] Roles > > 11/26/2002 12:54 > PM > > > > > > Rich, > > Are you suggesting to drop the predefined roles from the spec? > > Alejandro > > Rich Thompson wrote: > > > > > This mapping works reasonably in a J2EE environment because the > granularity > of role definitions doesn't vary too dramatically. As a web service > spec, > WSRP had better worry about cross platform issues as well. As soon as > one > moves out of the J2EE world, the chances that the granularity of role > definitions is close drops precipitously. > > Rex suggested the role fields could just be optional ... they are, > but what > this means for a Consumer that doesn't use roles and wants to use the > maximum number of Producers is pretending they support the spec > defined > roles (e.g. mapping whatever internal access control mechanisms are > in use > to the spec defined roles) and trying to map these onto the Producer > published roles. I assert this will fail miserably more than it will > succeed. > > > > > Andre Kramer > > <andre.kramer@eu. To: > wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org > citrix.com> cc: > > Subject: RE: > [wsrp-wsia] Roles > 11/26/2002 08:48 > > AM > > > > > > > J2EE also has the concept of role mapping in that a developer can > write her > application in terms of her usual set of roles. The deployer of the > application can then map those roles, at deployment time, using a > relatively > simple XML role reference description mechanism. I view wsrp consumer > roles > as the analogue of the J2EE developer's role set, the consumer Portal > admin > as the analogue of the application deployer (at service registration > time), > and the role names on the wire as the J2EE container roles. So, we > potentially have two similar mappings of roles: consumer to producer > and > JSR > 168 Portlet to J2EE Container? Each requiring human intervention. > > regards, > Andre > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich Thompson [mailto:richt2@us.ibm.com] > Sent: 26 November 2002 12:52 > To: Martin Bryan > Cc: wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: Re: [wsrp-wsia] Roles > > > > > > > > I have had the uneasy feeling about roles for a while, but rewriting > those > sections finally caused me to focus on it enough to see the detailed > reasons why (you site some good examples). At this point I think it > is only > useful to that set of Consumer-Producer pairs that have a coordinated > set > of roles and since we won't be able to define tight semantics it > doesn't > belong in the spec. > > On the address side, the variations in address are a big issue and > WSRP is > not the right place to tackle it. We took guidance from the P3P data > model > in this area though we did need to provide some structure for their > unstructured portions. I was hoping much of the variability could go > into > the field named street as this is an array of strings. In addition, > each of > the structures is individually extensible with the expectation that > some of > those extensions will come back for consideration as base level > fields in > v2. If there are other sources that would give a more > internationalized > view of this area, we certainly would appreciate a pointer .... > > > > > > "Martin Bryan" > > <mtbryan@sgml.u-n To: Rich > Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS > et.com> cc: > > Subject: Re: > [wsrp][wsia] > Draft spec v0.85 > 11/25/2002 11:35 > > AM > > > > > > > > > > Rich > > > Reflecting on this further, the whole schema of role mapping > only really > works when there is a huge overlap in the roles supported at > the Producer > and the Consumer. To me this is more and more smelling like > something > > that > > belongs as an extension rather than an inherent part of the > spec. > > > At last you are beginning to see the problem. Now consider what > happens if > the Producer is Finnish and the Consumer is Japanese and both use > their own > languages to define their services. Now we have a real problem, which > will > only be solved if you introduce a multilingual ontology of mapped > terms > into > the equation. > > The real problem, however, is how to do this dynamically, so that we > can > annotate recorded roles with "related names from other sources" (e.g. > record > that someone has determined, by some off-line means, that A relates > to B). > > Incidentally your address info structure in section 10 has not been > suitably > internationalized. You need techniques for defining subsections of > what you > call cities (e.g. Kensington, London) and for identifying blocks > (both at > street and house level) and subunits of buildings (flats or suites). > For > example, I have a friend in Roumania for whose address I need to > identify > the flat number, the staircase, the block on the road (unless you > call > Block > 26 a name!) and the district of the town in addition to the fields > you > allow > me to define once only if I want to send him something. It looks like > I'm > going to have to define more extensions than you do base fields, even > though > every different Consume and Producer will have to define his own set > of > extensions for most of these :-( > > Martin Bryan > The SGML Centre, 29 Oldbury Orchard, Churchdown, Glos GL3 2PU, UK > Phone/Fax: +44 1452 714029 E-mail: mtbryan@sgml.u-net.com > > For further details about The SGML Centre visit > http://www.sgml.u-net.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
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