OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

wsrp-wsia message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [Elist Home]


Subject: Re: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #187] Cacheability and perform*Interaction


Eilon,

I understand the clustering issues, and an implementation may try to 
invalidate whatever to let users expect a reasonable behavior.

> We may want to provide a partial resolution along the lines of the previous
> correspondence by suggesting that the Consumer would use the returned markup
> from performInteraction rather than any cached version, but the challenge is
> phrasing the suggestion in a way that does not imply fully-blown cache
> invalidation.

I see your point.

Subbu


> 
> Eilon
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Subbu Allamaraju [mailto:subbu@bea.com] 
> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 17:10
> To: wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #187] Cacheability and perform*In
> teraction
> 
> 
> Michael Freedman wrote:
> 
>>But, Alan, an action isn't cacheable.  Why is there any ambiguity 
>>about
>>whether actions propogate to the portlet?  Are you concerned that 
>>readers will get confused now that we have added the capability for an 
>>action to be optimized by returning markup?  I would be surprised by 
>>this, but if enough folks think action semantics are unclear a few words 
>>stating that "actions aren't cacheable and hence portlets will always 
>>receive them" should be sufficient.
> 
> 
> This is not obvious from the spec. We need to say explicitly that 
> portlets always recived actions regardless of any cached markup.
> 
> But the spec would be incomplete if it does not guarantee that the end 
> user gets to see updated markup after an action. If not by Alan's 
> proposal, how else do you propose to ensure this?
> 
> Subbu
> 
> 
>>As for clarifying how the Consumer manages the cache -- I personally
>>think its clear enough however if folks think some clarifying words 
>>should be added then fine as long as the clarifying words define the 
>>semantics that have already been agreed on.  I.e. we currently define no 
>>semantics for how an action impacts how a Consumer manages the cache. 
>>I.e. the impacts of actions on how the consumer manages the cache is 
>>exactly what we voted to defer to after 1.0.
>>    -Mike-
>>
>>Kropp, Alan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>An important objective of this change request is the point that 
>>>actions must propagate to the portlet, regardless of the existence of 
>>>unexpired cached content.  Is that not a requirement of the JSR?  
>>>Would not its absence from WSRP be a serious problem for WSRP-JSR 
>>>synchronization on interaction processing?
>>>
>>>I fail to see how this somehow resurrects the invalidation question, 
>>>but I'd gladly revisit the wording if folks think this is the 
>>>implication.  It is definitely not my intent.  Read carefully, either 
>>>my or Rich's text says absolutely nothing about the Producer telling 
>>>the Consumer to invalidate its cache.  The text is entirely focused on 
>>>directing how the Consumer manages the cache when processing an 
>>>action.  I do not agree that the spec already gives clarity on this 
>>>point, and feel its explicit mention, in the section on action 
>>>processing, lends the clarity I feel is missing.
>>>
>>>Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Michael Freedman [mailto:Michael.Freedman@oracle.com]
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:01 AM
>>>To: wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>Subject: Re: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #187] Cacheability and 
>>>perform*Interaction
>>>
>>>
>>>I strongly object to this change request and ask that it be withdrawn.
>>>We have already discussed and rejected twice now adding invalidation 
>>>semantics in 1.0.  This change request introduces no new technical issue 
>>>to challenge the prior discussions and therefore should not be 
>>>considered.  We should stand by the rules we have established.
>>>
>>>To head off arguments that it introduces something new ... the change
>>>request asks for two things:  first to clarify whether actions are 
>>>cacheable, and second how an action affects the cache for subsequent 
>>>getMarkups.  Is there really any confusion concerning whether actions 
>>>are cacheable?  The specification defines no provisions for such 
>>>behavior, only markup.  Why do we need to clarify something that is 
>>>clearly not supported by the protocol?  As for how actions affect the 
>>>cache -- this is precisely the discussion we have had twice prior to 
>>>this change request -- and have twice prior voted to not define 
>>>invalidation caching in 1.0.
>>>   -Mike-
>>>
>>>Rich Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>Document: Spec
>>>>Section: 6.3.x
>>>>Page/Line: 39/9
>>>>Requested by: Alan Kropp
>>>>Old text: [none]
>>>>Proposed text: [new section: 6.3.4? Cache Discard] The Consumer MUST
>>>>always propagate an interaction to the portlet. If there is a 
>>>>perUser-scoped cache for this end-user, as a result of a prior
> 
> interaction 
> 
>>>>with this portlet, the Consumer MUST NOT rely on the contents of this 
>>>>cache, even if its expiration time indicates it is still valid. The
> 
> reason 
> 
>>>>for this is the interaction will very likely change the portlet's state, 
>>>>and therefore must not be diverted by the Consumer in favor of hitting
> 
> its 
> 
>>>>cache. The Consumer COULD send the validation token from the prior 
>>>>interaction's CacheControl in the interaction request, and in the event 
>>>>the portlet determines that the state change does not invalidate the 
>>>>cached content, will indicate that the Consumer may use the cached 
>>>>content, using the response mechanism described in the section on
> 
> Caching. 
> 
>>>>
>>>>Reasoning: Make conformance statement wrt caching and interactions.  
>>>>I
>>>>believe this aligns us with JSR requirement that actions always propagate
> 
> 
>>>>to the portlet.
>>>>
>>>>[RT] While this is close to what we have discussed (& rejected) about
>>>>interactions invalidating the cache, I think there is value to explicitly
> 
> 
>>>>having the spec say something in this area. 
>>>>
>>>>Alternate suggestion: [new section: 6.3.4 User Interactions and 
>>>>Caching]
>>>>The Consumer MUST always propagate End-User interactions to the Producer.
> 
> 
>>>>If available, the Consumer SHOULD send the validateTag corresponding to 
>>>>the MarkupParms supplied to the interaction invocation. If the Portlet 
>>>>determines that the interaction does not invalidate the cached content, 
>>>>will indicate that the Consumer can use the cached content via the 
>>>>useCachedMarkup flag of a returned MarkupContext structure. 
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
>>>>manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
>>>manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
>>> 
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
> manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
> manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>




[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [Elist Home]


Powered by eList eXpress LLC