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Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] XHTML Considerations (was: First conference ca ll(Summary))
That's right - while most likely the same tags would be allowed/forbidden
for XHTML and HTML, nevertheless HTML conceptually must be treated as a
markup that is different from XHTML. While a consumer who just aggregates
markup could work with either HTML / XHTML, consumers that *really* expect
XHTML and expect to be able to transcode the markup e.g. using XML
transformations could not accept HTML.
You have a very goof point with VoiceXML - this is probably the mist
difficult one. It may by the way be an example where it is beneficial to
allow portlets to provide "begin page" markup with the grammar information
and then the actual VoiceXML markup in a main part.
We have done some work with VoiceXML and portals. What we did so far is
using menus with a menu-grammar and using the menues to navigate to voice
portlets that then have their own grammer plus something like "back" or
"cancel". This way, it was not really necessary to merge the grammars of
different portals, just portlet grammers of single portlets with some
portal navigation verbs (back, home, ...) .
An example is this:
Grammar generated by the *portal's aggregation* code (just an example
without VoiceXML syntax): "Stocks" (DTMF 1), "Weather" (DTMF 2), "Sports"
(DTMF 3)
Voice Output generated by aggregation/portlets: *1 Stocks* xyz 90 abc 80 *2
Weather* New York 30' *3 Sports* 1. FC Bayern wins again !!! ...
Grammar generated by the *portlet's* code (just an example without VoiceXML
syntax): "New York" (DTMF 1) "Bejing" (DTMF 2) "Rome" (DTMF 3) plus
"Back"(DTMF 4) generated by the *portal's* code
Voice Output generated by portlet: *1 New York*, sunny *2 Bejing*,
raining, *3 Rome*, sunny, *4 Back*
Best regards,
Thomas
"PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" <gregory_pavlik@hp.com> on 04/10/2002
07:16:59 PM
Please respond to "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)"
<gregory_pavlik@hp.com>
To: "'Gino Filicetti'" <gfilicetti@bowstreet.com>, "'Eilon Reshef'"
<eilon.reshef@webcollage.com>, "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)"
<gregory_pavlik@hp.com>, Thomas Schaeck/Germany/IBM@IBMDE, "'Takao
Mohri'" <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com>
cc: "'WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)'" <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] XHTML Considerations (was: First conference
ca ll (Summary))
We should be very careful not to attempt to treat XHTML and HTML
interchangeably. If the aggregation component (intermediary agent) expects
an XML language, HTML fragments without body tags won't work in many cases
(ie, missing alt tags in an img element won't validate). even assuming the
document is well formed. VoiceXML is an interesting example. It won't
support well the concept of fragments and we'll need rules for how to
"aggregate" grammars, for example, that are independent of restrictions on
the markup language itself.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Gino Filicetti [mailto:gfilicetti@bowstreet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:06 PM
To: 'Eilon Reshef'; 'PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)'; 'Thomas Schaeck';
'Takao Mohri'
Cc: 'WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)'
Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] XHTML Considerations (was: First conference ca
ll (Summary))
I believe the point Thomas was making when he stated that there is no
"markup language of WSRP" is that we need to only concern ourselves with
determining the list of acceptable (or unacceptable) markup tags in each
of the markup languages we plan to support.....
Since XHTML is a superset/clean version of HTML, by stating that a <BODY>
tag is unacceptable in your markup fragment in XHTML it implies the same in
HTML...
Therefore, I think we can get away with one list of unacceptable tags that
applies to both XHTML and HTML....
G
-----Original Message-----
From: Eilon Reshef [mailto:eilon.reshef@webcollage.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:58 AM
To: 'PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)'; 'Thomas Schaeck'; 'Takao Mohri'
Cc: 'WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)'
Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
I do believe we have to offer a migration path for people that have or
even prefer plain old HTML - expecting everybody to go back to their Perl
scripts and JSP templates and rework them might provide a barrier to entry
that we can avoid by simply supporting HTML.
-----Original Message-----
From: PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2) [mailto:gregory_pavlik@hp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:48 AM
To: 'Thomas Schaeck'; Takao Mohri
Cc: PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2); WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
Is there a general statement on whether the markup subcommittee intends to
treat HTML and XHTML interchangeably? My initial thought was that WSRP
would
do better to standardize on XHTML, which would have a number of advantages
including the ability of the consumer to treat the fragment as an XML
fragment. It's not terribly difficult to tidy up a piece of HTML and
repurpose it as well-formed/valid XHTML when dealing with legacy content.
An
early focus on XHTML might position us better for dealing with devices in
the long run, as it appears that WML and cHTML are going to be secondary
targets for the TC.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Schaeck [mailto:SCHAECK@de.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:43 PM
To: Takao Mohri
Cc: PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2); WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
There is not something like "the markup language of WSRP", the WSRP
protocol needs not to be tied to any particular markup language, the
protocol and the markup exchanged can be viewed as orthogonal.
However, WSRP will need to define rules for valid markup fragments and
common styles with the priorities
1. (X)HTML
2. WML, cHTML, VoiceXML...
It would be interesting to see the rules that would define valid XHTML
Basic fragments.
Takao, could you post an XHTML Basic example document to the mailing list
and an outline of fragment rules for XHTML Basic ? Which tags would be
allowed in aggregatable XHTML Basic fragments and which tags would not be
allowed to use in fragments ?
Best regards,
Thomas
Takao Mohri <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com> on 04/09/2002 01:26:58 PM
Please respond to Takao Mohri <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com>
To: "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" <gregory_pavlik@hp.com>
cc: "WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)" <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: Re: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
Greg,
Yes, as you mentioned, XHTML Basic is becoming a standard for cellular
phones.
In WAP 2.0, XHTML Mobile Profile (an extention of XHTML Basic) is a
standard markup language. In Japan, cellular phones that support WAP 2.0
are already on sale by KDDI. NTT Docomo also has announced support of WAP
2.0.
In the near future, WAP 2.0, i.e, XTHML Basic will be used by many mobile
devices.
If the markup language of WSRP is based on XHTML Basic,
it makes support of mobile devices much easier.
Regards,
Takao
"PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" wrote:
>
> Gino,
>
> Could you clarify if your intent is to consider XHMTL/XHTML Basic as a
part
> of the HTML focus? This wasn't clear from the notes. There appears to be
a
> broad convergence in the mobile space, both with respect to WML and NTT
> Docomo, to standardizing on XHTML Basic + CSS. XHTML is going to be here
on
> the device very soon, perhaps quicker than on the desktop, making this a
> relatively high priority item. Fujitsu may have some comments on this as
> well.
>
> Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gino Filicetti [mailto:gfilicetti@bowstreet.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 3:22 PM
> To: WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
> Subject: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
>
> Team,
>
> Attached are the meeting notes from today's Markup Subcommittee meeting.
> Comments and suggestions are welcome.
>
> One thing I did notice was that there were quite a few participants
today
> that aren't on the actual list of official members for this team. Since
this
> team is quite small, I think it'd be great if we could get some of you
to
> officially join and help out with the effort. Unfortunately, I wasn't
able
> to capture the names of ALL the attendees this time around (I'll be sure
to
> record the con-call next time), but please send me an email so we can
add
> your name to official list and flesh out the team a little more.
>
> Currently, the official list is:
>
> Gino Filicetti
> David Taieb
> Khurram Mahmood
> Susan Levine
> Michael Hillerman
>
> Thanks,
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Gino Filicetti | Software Engineer
> One Harbour Place, Portsmouth, NH 03801
> T 603.559.1692 | gfilicetti@bowstreet.com
> w w w . b o w s t r e e t . c o m
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
> manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
// Takao MOHRI (mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com)
// FUJITSU LABORATORIES LTD.
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