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Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)

Just as a comment - it will be quite easy to implement WSRP services as
servlets running on a normal application server, all one has to do is to
call from the SOAP code (e.g. SOAP4J or AXIS) into the servlet container
using the request dispatcher that can be obtained within a provider for the
SOAP code. Similar things are probably possible on .NET. So when starting
from scratch, developing WSRP services will be about as simple or hard as
developing web apps.

But of course it is true that existing web apps need to be changed to run
as WSRP services...

Best regards,


Sasha Aickin <AlexanderA@plumtree.com> on 04/12/2002 05:48:27 AM

Please respond to Sasha Aickin <AlexanderA@plumtree.com>

To:    Eilon Reshef <eilon.reshef@webcollage.com>, "PAVLIK,GREGORY
       (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" <gregory_pavlik@hp.com>, Thomas
       Schaeck/Germany/IBM@IBMDE, Takao Mohri <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com>
cc:    "WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)" <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject:    RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)


While  this is true (and I'm generally a big fan of integrating with
existing systems),  supporting HTML doesn't seem like the big barrier to
supporting JSP and Perl  scripts.  The big problem with that, it seems, is
that we've committed  ourselves to the SOAP web services world.  Rewriting
a web app to be a  web service is decidely non-trivial; you can lose out on
a lot of things that  J2EE server and IIS give you for free (session
management being a huge one), and  fitting in with the web service
programming paradigms is very different than  writing a web app page.

As a sidenote, I  have to admit that sometimes I get frustrated that we are
trying to solve a lot  of problems that have already been solved with
standard web app development  tools.  Session management, authentication,
privacy, efficient caching, and  other issues are all fairly well
understood using the basic HTML/HTTP solution,  and I feel like we're
rewriting a lot of that.  Not only is it a lot of  work, it will be hard
for us to document and for developers to learn.  Does  anyone else
sometimes feel this way, or am I the only one?

That  all being said, I think that we have to support HTML if only for the
huge amount  of developer knowledge of HTML (vs. XHTML).

-----Original Message-----
From: Eilon Reshef  [mailto:eilon.reshef@webcollage.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002  8:58 AM
To: 'PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)'; 'Thomas Schaeck';  'Takao Mohri'
Cc: 'WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)'
Subject:  RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)

I do believe we have to offer a migration path for  people that have or
even prefer plain old HTML - expecting everybody to go  back to their Perl
scripts and JSP templates and rework them might provide a  barrier to entry
that we can avoid by simply supporting  HTML.
-----Original Message-----
From: PAVLIK,GREGORY  (HP-NewJersey,ex2) [mailto:gregory_pavlik@hp.com]
Sent:  Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:48 AM
To: 'Thomas Schaeck'; Takao  Mohri
Cc: PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2); WSRP Mailing List  (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call  (Summary)

Is there a general statement on whether the markup  subcommittee intends to
treat HTML and XHTML  interchangeably? My initial thought was that WSRP
do better to standardize on XHTML, which would have a number of  advantages
including the ability of the consumer to  treat the fragment as an XML
fragment. It's not  terribly difficult to tidy up a piece of HTML and
repurpose it as well-formed/valid XHTML when dealing with legacy  content.
early focus on XHTML might position us  better for dealing with devices in
the long run, as  it appears that WML and cHTML are going to be secondary
targets for the TC.


-----Original Message-----
From:  Thomas Schaeck [mailto:SCHAECK@de.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:43 PM
To: Takao Mohri
Cc: PAVLIK,GREGORY  (HP-NewJersey,ex2); WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)

There is not something like "the markup language of WSRP",  the WSRP
protocol needs not to be tied to any  particular markup language, the
protocol and the  markup exchanged can be viewed as orthogonal.

However, WSRP will need to define rules for valid markup  fragments and
common styles with the  priorities
1. (X)HTML
2.  WML, cHTML, VoiceXML...

It would be interesting to see the rules that would define  valid XHTML
Basic fragments.

Takao, could you post an XHTML Basic example document to the  mailing list
and an outline of fragment rules for  XHTML Basic ? Which tags would be
allowed in  aggregatable XHTML Basic fragments and which tags would not be
allowed to use in fragments ?

Best regards,


Takao Mohri <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com> on 04/09/2002  01:26:58 PM

Please respond to Takao Mohri  <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com>

To:    "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)"  <gregory_pavlik@hp.com>
cc:     "WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)" <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject:    Re: [wsrp][markup] First  conference call (Summary)


Yes, as you mentioned, XHTML Basic is becoming a standard  for cellular
In WAP  2.0, XHTML Mobile Profile (an extention of XHTML Basic) is a
standard markup language. In Japan, cellular phones that  support WAP 2.0
are already on sale by KDDI. NTT  Docomo also has announced support of WAP
In the near future, WAP 2.0, i.e, XTHML Basic will be used  by many mobile

If the markup language of WSRP is based on XHTML  Basic,
it makes support of mobile devices much  easier.


"PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" wrote:
> Gino,
> Could you clarify if your intent is  to consider XHMTL/XHTML Basic as a
> of the HTML focus? This wasn't clear from the notes.  There appears to be
>  broad convergence in the mobile space, both with respect to WML and  NTT
> Docomo, to standardizing on XHTML Basic +  CSS. XHTML is going to be here
> the device very soon, perhaps quicker than on the desktop,  making this a
> relatively high priority item.  Fujitsu may have some comments on this as
>  well.
> Greg
> -----Original  Message-----
> From: Gino Filicetti [mailto:gfilicetti@bowstreet.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 3:22 PM
> To: WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
>  Subject: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
> Team,
> Attached are the meeting notes from  today's Markup Subcommittee meeting.
> Comments  and suggestions are welcome.
> One thing I did notice was that there were quite a few  participants
> that aren't on the actual  list of official members for this team. Since
> team is quite small, I think it'd  be great if we could get some of you
>  officially join and help out with the effort. Unfortunately, I wasn't
> to capture the names of  ALL the attendees this time around (I'll be sure
> record the con-call next time), but  please send me an email so we can
> your name  to official list and flesh out the team a little more.
> Currently, the official list  is:
> Gino  Filicetti
> David Taieb
> Khurram Mahmood
> Susan Levine
> Michael Hillerman
> Thanks,
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Gino Filicetti | Software Engineer
>  One Harbour Place, Portsmouth, NH 03801
> T  603.559.1692 | gfilicetti@bowstreet.com
> w w w .  b o w s t r e e t . c o m
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------
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// Takao MOHRI (mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com)

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