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Subject: RE: [wsrp-interfaces] Re: [wsia][wsrp][wsrp-wsia joint interfaces]: Analternative


Jeff - my comments are embedded in [CL] tags.


Best regards
Carsten Leue

-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B÷blingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401



|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           Jeff Broberg     |
|         |           <jbroberg@silvers|
|         |           tream.com>       |
|         |                            |
|         |           06/14/2002 04:54 |
|         |           AM               |
|         |           Please respond to|
|         |           jbroberg         |
|         |                            |
|---------+---------------------------->
  >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                                             |
  |       To:       Michael Freedman <Michael.Freedman@oracle.com>, wsia <wsia@lists.oasis-open.org>, WSRP <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>,         |
  |        wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org, wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org                                                                 |
  |       cc:                                                                                                                                   |
  |       Subject:  RE: [wsrp-interfaces] Re: [wsia][wsrp][wsrp-wsia joint interfaces]: An alternative                                          |
  |                                                                                                                                             |
  |                                                                                                                                             |
  >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Mike -

I agree.  The current model, while clearly understood by many, I believe is
being interpreted in slightly different ways, enough so, to be causing all
the confusion and concern you mentiono.  I still believe a very high level
diagram of the relationships between the client - consumer - producer would
be extremely beneficial.  I am not sure how to draw that, as each
conference call, the diagram I draw is different from the one before.  So
for me, to get this all straight, I quess it comes down to definitions.
And from those definitions we can determine relationships, etc.  So, I took
the liberty of using some of the statements that you made in your email, to
see if they are agreed upon or not.  This will also be helping for the
definitions in the glossary.  So here goes:

client = an end user

[CL] ok [CL]


consumer = an intemediary responsible for the aggregation and control of
heterogeneous producer services, responsible for the interaction between
the client and the producer services placed on the clients application
interface.
[CL] ok [CL]


producer = a container of producer services
[CL] ok [CL]


producer service = the WSIA/WSRP compliant service ( aka. portlet )
[CL] ok [CL]


template = a producer service, with initial settings specified
[CL] template = design time instance of a portlet.  [CL]


entity = an instance of a producer service ( potentially based on a
template )
[CL]instance = logic with some associated data (persistent or transient)
[CL]


transient entity = an instance of a producer service
[CL]ok [CL]


persistent entity = an instance of a producer service + persistent data
[CL]ok [CL]


session scope = is a shared scope between all entities within a producer
that a consumer chooses to group together.  This can be all the entities of
the producer, a subset of entities, and even at the extreme one session per
entity.
[CL]ok [CL]



While, I know some of the definitions are terse, I am trying to see if the
relationships are correct.  Because half the battle during these
discussions is trying to understand what everyone is saying, especially
when we are all working off of various interpretations of what the terms
actually mean.  So, please, let me know, where my interpretation is wrong,
and hopefully from these definitions, the relationships will be evident,
and our efforts can proceed.


jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Freedman [mailto:Michael.Freedman@oracle.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:59 PM
To: wsia; WSRP; wsrp-interfaces@lists.oasis-open.org;
wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [wsrp-interfaces] Re: [wsia][wsrp][wsrp-wsia joint interfaces]:
An alternative


I understood from the draft that a persistent entity referred to "remote
portlet logic" + persistent data.   But does persistent entity also refer
to
a particular consumer reference of such a thing?  My read of the spec was
it did not -- that a transient entity did this.  I.e. I want to be able to
have 2 portlets in a consumer that share the same persistence record.  I
have noticed that transient enitites (and objects in general) seem to be
leading to a lot of confusion in our expert group.  My proposal is an
attempt to look at our problem from a different perspective to see if we
end up
with something less confusing to ourselves and then hopefully to others.
So as I e-mailed in another message, I suggest we look at things less like
objects and more as scopes (references).

Furthermore I wasn't trying to say that one model has fewer references then
another.  You are correct that the number of references are the same.
The difference is the number of reference that are maintained/managed.
When the consumer (is a portal) supplies the references, these references
will likely be able to be (er)constructed vs. maintained in some sort of
key map table.  Likewise, the producer will only maintain those keys that
are pertinent to it.  I.e. if there is no transient state it merely ignores
the reference vs. had to figure out it should manufacture a constant
dummy one for the consumer.

Lastly, I think we are on the same page regarding sessions.  I agree that
the session scope is a shared scope between all entities within a producer
that a consumer chooses to group together.  This can be all the entities of
the producer, a subset of entities, and even at the extreme one session
per entity.

In the end, my proposal is just a concrete attempt at asking ourselves
should we look at the problem a little differently since the current model
continues to generate confusion and concern?  At the least, I hope that
looking at this problem from another perspective allows us to
clarify/improve
the current draft.  However, I am also open to going down this/a different
path if we feel like the end result is simpler or less confusing.
     -Mike-



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