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Subject: RE: [wsrp] Request scope support
Could you elaborate on "On the flip side, the Producer can't tell whether a new User Request Cycle starts between steps 1 & 2 above due to the possibility that markup was served from a cache.". I think I don't get your point here. How does cached content refer to the transition from 1 to 2? The consumer wouldn't present markup between 1&2 and both modify state on the producer, so potentially both would result in a new navState. My assumption would be that he() starts a new JSF phases cycle anyway so (because both modify state) so from the JSF's perpective, the request scoped beans would need to be reinitialized anyway. Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards, Richard Jacob ______________________________________________________ IBM Lab Boeblingen, Germany Dept.8288, WebSphere Portal Server Development WSRP Team Lead & Technical Lead WSRP Standardization Phone: ++49 7031 16-3469 - Fax: ++49 7031 16-4888 Email: mailto:richard.jacob@de.ibm.com Rich Thompson <richt2@us.ibm.co m> To wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org 01/19/06 03:03 PM cc Subject RE: [wsrp] Request scope support What I heard on the call yesterday was that this scope could at least be mostly dealt with by Producer implementations supporting such a scope, but that there may be times when Consumer assistance would make a difference. Consider some of the more complicated scenarios (note, these are common): 1. pbia() 2. he() 3. he() 4. gm() 5. gm() 6. gm() - different navState As I typed the ID proposal, it became clear having the Consumer differentiate that step 6 starts a new User Request Cycle would be expensive (it requires the Consumer "remember" the most recent navState separately (especially if templates are in use), or at least process URLs in a manner that recognizes the URL has a different navState). If one throws in the bookmark/back button issue, the Consumer would have to actually store the last navState used in order to determine whether a new ID was required. I thought this would be too expensive of a requirement. On the flip side, the Producer can't tell whether a new User Request Cycle starts between steps 1 & 2 above due to the possibility that markup was served from a cache. I tried to develop the boolean flag approach as a middle ground where the burden of managing this scope stays at the Producer, but the Consumer provides a simple indicator of times when it knows a new User Request Cycle has started. This can help the Producer determine whether steps 2 & 3 are in the same cycle as step 1, but leaves the thornier problem of step 6, bookmarked URLs and the back button to the Producer. Rich "Mike Caffyn" <mike@netunitysoftware.com> To 01/19/06 08:20 AM <wsrp@lists.oasis-op en.org> cc Subject RE: [wsrp] Request scope support Sorry I also missed the call, I agree with Richard and Andre. It seems the producer/portlet should be able to handle this request cycle without the consumer providing help. In normal operations the portlet would that either the request cycle started with a pbia() or he() and can reload that information during the render or be able to work with stored cache from the pbia() or he(). As Andre points out this method could run into problems during networking related issues, but due to optional nature of many interfaces/action/reactions in wsrp this could effect any type of portlet depending on the consumer. For example an complex request lifecycle to a portlet may have been: 1. Pbia() 2. He() 3. He() 4. Render() If the pbia() fails due to networking problems I would assume this would be reported and the user would re-execute? If either 2 or 3 he() fails the user would be non the wiser and the render would happen as if no event happened. If the render() fails, the consumer may use cache to display the previous markup? There seems to be lots of areas where the page could be inconsistent. Does refreshing the page cause the lifecycle to happen again? I'm not totally sure I understand the issue with the back button and bookmark in relationship to lifecycle and adding helper id. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Richard Jacob [mailto:richard.jacob@de.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:14 AM To: wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Fw: [wsrp] Request scope support I think the current proposal strenghtens my arguments I made yesterday. It's not quite easy to implement such a message correlation on the consumer side and the value it gives seems quite limited to me. We seem already to have troubles to clearly define what such a cycle would be, what it would mean and at the same time keep the features that WSRP and JSR168 offers in terms of bookmarkability back button support, etc. If we defined the requestCycle flag what would the difference really be in letting the Producer set internally flag (without the protocol need to transfer it). The Producer can easily conduct the same information on the incomming request, i.e. if a pbia() or he() occurs on a portlet instance (use the portletInstanceKey here) then it can consider it a new request cycle. I don't see the value in the protocol support to mimic this behavior. Unfortunalty JSFdoesn't fit well into our model simply because it doesn't clearly seperate action processing from rendering. Now we seem to try to "retrofit" our protocol in such a manner that it can act as a single phase protocol. I think consequently this might break our intended behavior which we might not have foreseen yet, examples here are cachability, back button, bookmarks. Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards, Richard Jacob ______________________________________________________ IBM Lab Boeblingen, Germany Dept.8288, WebSphere Portal Server Development WSRP Team Lead & Technical Lead WSRP Standardization Phone: ++49 7031 16-3469 - Fax: ++49 7031 16-4888 Email: mailto:richard.jacob@de.ibm.com Rich Thompson <richt2@us.ibm.co m> To wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org 01/18/06 11:09 PM cc Subject [wsrp] Request scope support For those not on the Interfaces SC call today, the use cases regarding Producers who have a concept of a user-request scope needing some support from Consumers was discussed. There was a building consensus toward having the Consumer supply an ID which changes only on action or event processing, though most wanted to see a proposal in the context of the spec and think through what the impacts of those changes would be on reasonable Consumer implementations before deciding whether or not to include such support in v2. I agreed to draft such a proposal, but had a problem with the scenario of a End-User jumping to a different state of the page. This can easily happen via a bookmark, but also may happen when the browser's back button is pushed. This caused me to change the proposal to a style where the Consumer indicates to the Producer when it knows a new requestCycle is starting via a boolean rather than being more definitive by supplying an ID. I left the original attempt in (with a strike through the text) so that people can easily consider that option as well. Rich [attachment "RequestID_proposal.doc" deleted by Richard Jacob/Germany/IBM] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
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