OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

wsrp message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: Re: [wsrp] Clearification: Resource URLs and markup params, etc.


Subbu Allamaraju <subbu@bea.com> wrote on 02/21/2006 05:50:37 AM:

> >       - wsrp-mode and wsrp-windowState portlet url parameters. I would
> > note the descriptions of these explicitly state that they apply to
> > render and blockingAction urlTypes. I think maintaining the integrity
of
> > the aggregated page requires that these not be supported on resource
> > URLs, unless someone can point out how a Consumer's decorations could
be
> > changed or how it would actually place a Portlet into maximize
> > windowState as a result of a resource URL activation.
>
> My interpretation is that, these parameters apply to the portlet
> processing the request, and not necessarily to the consumer applying
> decorations to the markup returned. When a URL contains a parameter with
> a specific window state, the consumer is merely asking the producer to
> generate markup or resource reflecting that window state. I don't see a
> requirement in the spec to change the window state or mode of the
> portlet, although that's what typical portal-consumers may do.
>
huh?
We explicitly say that an URL invocation of a render/pbia URL includes the
request to change the mode/window state.
Therefor I would say the contrary: Consumers should honor this (or be
strongly advised to do so) otherwise
the user experience will suffer. It seems strange for me to ignore the
request. I mean we're trying to define a common aggregated UI behavior and
this certainly contradicts it.

> >        - title: This is another case of the Portlet having opportunity
> > to impact the Consumer generated portion of the page during page
> > aggregation and therefore doesn't apply to resource url processing
>
> I think, this interpretation is specific to what the consumer is doing
> with the markup or resource. If the consumer is aggregating the response
> into a page that has windows-like titlebars, it might use the title in
> the manner you suggest. Other usages of this field are possible. For
> example, a special purpose consumer may be displaying resources in popup
> browser windows, and use the title in the browser title bar.
>
> >        - sessionID: I am willing to debate this one as I can see a
> > number of good use cases for the Portlet returning a new session, but
> > how a stateless Consumer could handle it is important.
>
> I agree that the stateless consumer use cases break down with sessionID
> returned from getMarkup or getResource. As Mike points out, we have this
> problem with getMarkup itself.
>
> > In summary, perhaps we need to more explicitly state the semantic
> > difference between these operations. Do people generally agree with the

> > semantics I have described above? Do people have other proposals which
> > keep the stateless Consumer supported? Are people willing to throw out
> > the stateless Consumer design point statements?
>
> Is it impossible to keep the consumer stateless? Perhaps not. To be
> truely stateless, consumer can't just push various pieces of state into
> the markup when the page is getting generated on the server side and
> expect the state to ramain constant.
I think currently they can because the render result is a result of the
Consumer processing. Therefor the Consumer has the control.

> IMO, consumers will have to rely on
> browser side gimmicks to support state updates that happen after the
> page aggregation started (with getMarkup), or even much later (with
> getResource).
Well, things brings us again to AJAX style.
But this breaks the "rule" that the Cosumer is in control and that the page
state is opaque/mainted by the consumer.
Now you seem to imply that portlets/resources can manipulate the overall
page state. I think this isn't true with what WSRP defines today and to
enable that we would need to drop some level of opaqueness of the overall
state.

>
> Subbu
>
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> > *Subbu Allamaraju <subbu@bea.com>*
> >
> > 02/15/06 11:48 AM
> >
> >
> > To
> >    WSRP TC <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> >    Re: [wsrp] Clearification: Resource URLs and markup params, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The issue of a producer returning two sessionIDs in parallel requests
is
> > possible, and I don't know if the spec can help either the consumer or
> > the producer.
> >
> > One way of avoiding returning new sessionIDs is to somehow tie
> > initCookie with sessionIDs, and raise InvalidCookie fault when there is
> > a need to return new sessionID. It is possible to design a producer to
> > tie init cookies to sessions, and never return sessionIDs.
> >
> > We have had a number of discussions on this topic in the past, and the
> > solutions are not always pretty.
> >
> > Subbu
> >
> > Stefan Hepper wrote:
> >  >
> >  > Subbu Allamaraju wrote:
> >  >> On the question of modes and states, I don't see why a portlet
should
> >  >> not specify mode and window state params on a resource URL. The
> >  >> resource generated may depend on the window state and mode.
> >  >>
> >  >> The real question is whether the mode and window state specified in
a
> >  >> resource URL applies to  subsequent getMarkup/pbia/he calls or not.
> >  >> The spec leaves this open. It also leaves the same question open
for
> >  >> normal action and render URLs.
> >  >>
> >  >
> >  > right, I think that needs to be clearified.
> >  >
> >  >> On your point on session, the question is not whether a portlet can
> >  >> return a new sessionID or not, but how it relates to the sessionID
> >  >> returned via a getMarkup/pbia/he. If a producer chooses to return a
> >  >> new sessionID, I would expect the consumer to use that in
subsequent
> >  >> calls. This is because, from the consumer's point, getResource is
just
> >  >> another request for a portlet.
> >  >>
> >  >> I can see at least one use case for returning a new sessionID. That
is
> >  >> when a portlet is generating the resource, e.g. to generate some
> >  >> response for an Ajax request. It should be able to create new
session
> >  >> either when there is no session currently, or when the current
session
> >  >> expired.
> >  >>
> >  >
> >  > what happens if you make a parallel render call in that case?
Shouldn't
> >  > the spec that in that case that the session id returned by both
calls
> >  > must be the same (like in the JSR 168 case where different portlets
of
> >  > the same web app can create a new session in parallel at render
time)?
> >  >
> >  >> On the question of title, my interpretation is that the title
returned
> >  >> via any operation applies to the current markup returned, and it is
up
> >  >> to the consumer to treat it as a new title replacing the current
one,
> >  >> or use it just for that rendition of the markup/resource. So, I
don't
> >  >> an issue.
> >  >>
> >  >
> >  > Still sounds confusing to me that the spec states for title:
> >  > " The title the Portlet would prefer to be used in any decoration of
the
> >  > markup."
> >  > what are decorations for resources?
> >  >
> >  > Stefan
> >  >
> >  >> Subbu
> >  >>
> >  >> Stefan Hepper wrote:
> >  >>> Subbu Allamaraju wrote:
> >  >>>> Stefan Hepper wrote:
> >  >>>>> I've some questions regarding the resource URLs. From the
current
> >  >>>>> version of the spec it is not clear to me how getResource and
> >  >>>>> getMarkup relate to each other.
> >  >>>>> - What happens if I specific new nav params, new portlet mode /
> >  >>>>> window state on the resource URL? Will they be valid for the
next
> >  >>>>> getMarkup call?
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>> Should they be? I think the semantics are the same as that of a
> >  >>>> render URL.
> >  >>>
> >  >>> Depends if we say that getResource and getMarkup are related or
not.
> >  >>> I think they they should be related and that there should be only
one
> >  >>> set of portlet mode, window state, nav params, per POP. I also
think
> >  >>> that we should not allow a resource URL to change this state, that
> >  >>> doesn't make sense to me.
> >  >>>
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>>> - What are the semantics for portlet mode and window state when
> >  >>>>> rendering a resource? What portlet mode and window state will
the
> >  >>>>> portlet receive if nothing is specified?
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>> I would assume that this is up to the resource handler or the
> >  >>>> producer or portlet.
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>
> >  >>> You mean that the result may be different per mode or window
state? I
> >  >>> can see use cases for this, but think that the spec should state
that
> >  >>> the getResource calls gets the current portlet mode and window
state.
> >  >>>
> >  >>>>> - Can you specify navigational state on a resource URL? (yes I
> >  >>>>> assume based on the current spec)
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>> Yes
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>>> - Why can the getResource call create a new session?
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>> It might, if the consumer does not include the current sessionID.
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>
> >  >>> Why would a getResource call need to create a session? What would
be
> >  >>> the use case?
> >  >>>
> >  >>>> Could you elaborate on why you think getResource and getMarkup
are
> >  >>>> not related. As far as the context provided by the consumer is
> >  >>>> concerned, they are similar. The only difference is on the
semantics
> >  >>>> of the response.
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>
> >  >>> When reading the spec again I could not find a sentence saying
that
> >  >>> they are related. I think this needs to be clarified.
> >  >>>
> >  >>> Another thing I noted is that the getResource operation is allowed
to
> >  >>> change the portlet title. I think that does not really make sense.
> >  >>> What is the use case for allowing to change the title in
getResource?
> >  >>>
> >  >>> Stefan
> >  >>>
> >  >>>> Subbu
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>>
> >  >>>
> >  >>>
> >  >>>
> >  >>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  >>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC
that
> >  >>> generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your
TCs
> >  >>> in OASIS
> >  >>> at:
> >  >>>
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >  >>
> >  >>
> >  >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC
that
> >  >> generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs
in
> >  >> OASIS
> >  >> at:
> >  >>
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >  >>
> >  >>
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> >  > generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs
in
> >  > OASIS
> >  > at:
> >  >
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> > generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs in
OASIS
> > at:
> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
To
> > unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> > generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in
> > OASIS at:
> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs in
OASIS
> at:
> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>



[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]