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Subject: [wss] Minutes for Telecon, Tuesday 17 December 2002

Minutes for WSSTC Telecon, Tuesday 17 December 2002
Dial in info: +1 719-955-1560 #415985.
Minutes taken by Steve Anderson


    - Minutes from 3 December 2002 meeting accepted (unanimous)
    - Minutes from 11-12 December F2F approved (roll call vote: 32 of 48
      in favor, 12 abstain, 4 no response)
    - CPV items in Issues list v8 approved (unanimous)
    - Issues list v8 approved (unanimous)
  New (General) Action Items:

  Issues List Action Items & Status Updates:
    - Hal to send text to John for issue spun out of issue 3
    - Frederick to send text to John for issue 61
    - 26: CLOSED
    - 28: PENDING
    - 36: CLOSED
    - Kelvin to email Zahid re: issue 47, 48 & 49
    - 50: PENDING
        - Ron to review and provide feedback by next call
    - 52: PENDING
        - Ron & Chris to clean up any text
    - 53
        - Ron to work with Chris, Tony & PhilG on issue 53, and report
          by next week
    - 55: CLOSED
    - John to add issues for versioning mechanism and for XML Token
                             Raw Notes

> Agenda:
> 1. Roll call

- Attendance attached to bottom of these minutes
- Quorum achieved

> 2. Review minutes from previous meeting (12/3)
>    < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200212/msg00037.html >

- [VOTE] unanimous consent, accepted

> 3. Approval of proposed resolutions from the F2F 
>    < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200212/msg00084.html >
>    < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200212/msg00085.html >
>    < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200212/msg00086.html >
>    < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200212/msg00087.html >

- Jeff: where in the minutes is this concisely represented?
    - Steve: no complete summary
    - Kelvin: John has posted new issues list with new status "CPV",
      Closed Pending Vote
    - so vote is essentially on new issues list
- Connor: do we need quorum vote for every decision?
    - Chris: RRO does allow anyone to demand it
    - [discussion of need for quorum and formal votes]
    - BillC: notes that other TCs provide dial in, which can help
    - Chris: with TC our size, hard to get phone in middle of room that
      can accommodate the room
    - Kelvin: we did try, but were unsuccessful
- Kelvin: any objections to the motion to approve the CPV items?
    - JerryS: where is the issues list we are voting on?
    - JohnS posted to list last night
      < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200212/msg00097.html >
    - RLBob: sees 6 items in issues list marked CPV
    - Kelvin: they are 3,4,5,22,51,54
    - Hal: his issue 3 was agreed to be closed, but a new issue was to
      be created
    - JohnS: that will happen, asks Hal to send issue text
    - Hal: will do
    - [ACTION] Hal to send text to John for issue spun out of issue 3
    - Jeff: not clear what was agreed to, hasn't had time to absorb
      the minutes
    - the issues show CPV, but doesn't reflect what was agreed to
    - Kelvin: the most recent draft of docs reflect the changes
    - RobP: reiterates that whatever we approve today can be 
      re-examined in new issues
    - call to question
    - any objections?
    - Jeff: clarification, is it just the issues list?
    - John: suggests breaking motion up into three parts
        - the minutes
        - the CPV items
        - issues list
- motion to approve minutes from F2F
    - Jerry: hasn't had time to review the minutes, and doesn't see 
      urgency to approve
    - Chris: if we can't close on what we discussed, hard to make
    - Jerry: not against approving the CPV items or issues list
    - John: references the minutes as a way of describing the resolution
    - Jerry: if motion is combined into one, withdraws objection
    - Jeff: suggests voting on the 6 CPV items
    - John: not adequate, for several reasons
        - because several items were also closed (rather than CPV) 
          because they were pending one person's approval, and
          that person was at the F2F and gave approval
        - certain items were designated 'postponed'
        - resolution to CPV items is found in minutes
    - [VOTE] roll call vote 32 of 42 approve, minutes approved
- motion to approve CPV items
    - Hal: suggests calling for objections to 
    - Ron: has question on resolution to issue 51
    - Rob: the action at F2F was for Tony to example out in section 7.1
      lines 664-669
    - Ron: example is still there
    - correction, it has been removed
    - [VOTE] no objections, CPV items closed
- motion to approve issues list
  < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200212/msg00097.html >
    - Frederick: item 61 has old text
    - [ACTION] Frederick to send text to John for issue 61
    - [VOTE] no objections, issues list approved

> 4. Discussion of remaining open issues

- Chris: any updates on open issues?
- John: walking through issues where people intended to get addressed
  by this call
    - 19: PhilG sent draft of extracted username token profile
      < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200212/msg00095.html >
        - Ron: understood that his submission didn't address username
        - Tony: agrees
        - John: since PhilG isn't present, so suggests we move on
        - Ron: agrees, may come back to this if time permits
    - 26: Tony was to have draft out
        - Ron: saw a change regarding this, and is comfortable closing
        - [CLOSED]
    - 28: Ron was to send doc
        - Ron: did send doc late
          < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200212/
            msg00100.html >
        - but we haven't resolved other derived issues related to this
        - could close this, but need to point to others
        - Frederick: Ron's submission has extensive changes, which needs
          review, and suggest leaving it as pending
        - [PENDING]
    - 36: RobP was to send text to Tony
        - RobP: sent text to Tony
        - Tony: added to docs, needs to be reviewed/verified
        - [PENDING]
    - Prateek: these seem to be all getting marked pending, time may
      be better served getting to TimM's vote on QoP
        - Chris: feels it more important to get through issues
        - BillC: discussion list is closing, and feels we owe it to 
          that group to vote on their work
        - John: we're almost through the list anyway
    - 36: RobP verified
        - [CLOSED]
    - 47, 48, 49: Zahid to comment
        - Zahid not on call
        - [ACTION] Kelvin to email Zahid re: issue 47, 48 & 49
    - 50: Ron to confirm that new text makes sense
        - [PENDING]
        - [ACTION] Ron to review and provide feedback by next call
    - 52: Chris to provide text
        - Chris: was mailed to list and included in draft 8
        - Ron: very good, but still has one question
        - [PENDING]
        - [ACTION] Ron & Chris to clean up any text re: issue 52
    - 53:
        - Tony: wants to ensure enough basics are in core, and usage
          can be addressed in profile
        - Ron: distinguishing between username token from username/
          password, which is more of a proof
        - [ACTION] Ron to work with Chris, Tony & PhilG on issue 53, and
          report by next week
        - [OPEN]
    - 55: Frederick's concern
        - Chris: thinks we made this edit
        - Frederick: reviewed it, fine
        - [CLOSED]
    - time expiring
    - Hal: 49 is marked open, and believes it should be pending
        - John: agrees
        - 49 changed to [PENDING]
    - Jerry: recalls 2 approved items from F2F
        - determine mech for versioning
            - Ron: that was his action, and hasn't been done yet
        - proposal for XML token wrapper
        - [ACTION] John to add issues for versioning mechanism and for
          XML Token wrapper

> 5. Brief discussion of when next phone call will be

- Kelvin: according to schedule, next call would be 24 December
    - next call will be 14 January 7am PST
    - normal 2 hour call
    - need sponsor

> 6. Any other business

- Tim's QoP group
    - Tim: discussion group will disband on 20 December
    - group has worked for ~ 2 months
    - has advanced solution to reasonable solid state
    - report was send to list at end of November
      < http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200211/msg00179.html >
    - motion to create sub committee under TC to continue this QoP work
    - John: why not form new TC
    - Tim: may have to if this motion doesn't pass
    - Kelvin: ran Tim's suggestions by Karl Best
        - either approach would do (SC of TC, or new TC)
        - if we create SC of TC, would have to amend charter and get
    - Jeff: supports proposal
    - PhilHB: concerning new TC versus adding to this TC
        - opposed to PKIX model of creating standing groups
        - prefers more, shorter-lived TC
        - supports spinning off separate TC, rather than creating SC
          in this TC
    - John: along same lines, MS has number of people who would like to
      participate, and they are not security people
        - this is a very important area of work
        - also a timing problem of such people getting voting status
    - Tim: are you (John) willing to commit such involvement
    - John: generally, yes
    - Jerry: nothing has prevented such people from participating in
      discussion list as observers
    - John: reiterates this is more than just security
    - Jeff: reiterates that observers may participate, but cannot vote
    - John: disagrees, sees that as second-class citizenship
    - Hal: points out that this has been identified by this group as
      necessary, and will require close coordination with this group
    - John: can be done through close liaisons
    - Tony: in reading QoP group material, couldn't grasp requirements
      that were being worked towards
    - Chris: before voting, we'd have to change charter, etc.
    - BillC: can vote on whether we want to go down this path
    - Kelvin: reiterates Karl Best's concerns that such a change would
      require a change to the charter
    - Prateek: makes motion
        - The WSS TC resolves to form a sub-committee and instructs its
          members to advance the work of the QoP discussion group to
          OASIS standard by the Summer of 2003
    - Kelvin: not comfortable explicitly creating subcommittee (which 
      requires a charter change) without changing charter first and
      letting the TC approve that
    - time for call expiring, and lots of people exiting call
    - attempts to call quorum, so that vote can be taken
    - motion tabled, will be taken up at next meeting
- PhilG: on 25 November, Monica Martin and Phil Griffin made a 
  submission, and never got response whether this TC would accept and
  work on this submission
    - Kelvin: recalls that we decided to accept it, and directed PhilG
      to shepherd the work without significant impact to core and its

> 7. Adjourn

- Adjourned


Attendance of Voting Members:

  Steve Anderson OpenNetwork
  Toufic Boubez Layer 7
  Conor Cahill AOL
  Paul Cotton Microsoft
  William Cox BEA
  Venkat Danda IONA Technology
  Martijn de Boer SAP
  Yassir Elley Sun Microsystems
  Don Flinn Quadrasis
  Eric Gravengaard Reactivity
  Phil Griffin Griffin Consulting
  Phillip Hallam-Baker Verisign
  Erick Herring Digital Evolution
  Frederick Hirsch Nokia
  Jeff Hodges Sun Microsystems
  Maryann Hondo IBM
  Merlin Hughes Baltimore Technologies
  Chris Kaler Microsoft
  Charles Knouse Oblix
  Yutaka Kudo Hitachi
  Guillermo Lao ContentGuard
  Kelvin Lawrence IBM
  Hal Lockhart Entegrity Solutions
  Monica Martin Drake Certivo, Inc.
  Prateek Mishra Netegrity
  Ronald Monzillo Sun Microsystems
  Bob Morgan (individual)
  Ron Moritz Computer Associates
  Tim Moses Entrust
  Anthony Nadalin IBM
  Andrew Nash RSA Security
  Toshihiro Nishimura Fujitsu
  Mark Nobles LMI
  Rob Philpott RSA Security
  Hemma Prafullchandra Verisign
  Irving Reid Baltimore Technologies
  Jason Rouault HP
  Vipin Samar Oracle
  Senthil Sengodan Nokia
  Shawn Sharp Cyclone Commerce
  John Shewchuk Microsoft
  Andrew Sweet Perficient
  Gene Thurston AmberPoint
  Steve Trythall Sonic Software
  Sam Wei Documentum
  John Weiland Navy
  Rob Weltman Netscape/AOL
  Pete Wenzel SeeBeyond

Attendance of Observers or Prospective Members:

  Lloyd Burch Novell
  Takashi Kojo NEC
  Hank Simon Lockheed Martin

Membership Status Changes:



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