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Subject: RE: [wss] Minutes for Telecon, Tuesday 8 April 2003

I've been asked to provide the raw vote info, so here it is:

Jan Alexander Systinet y
Steve Anderson OpenNetwork n
Paul Cotton Microsoft n
Venkat Danda IONA Technology y
Peter Dapkus BEA y
Martijn de Boer SAP y
Yassir Elley Sun Microsystems y
Don Flinn (individual) a
Eric Gravengaard Reactivity n
Phil Griffin Griffin Consulting y
Phillip Hallam-Baker VeriSign y
Frederick Hirsch Nokia a
Maryann Hondo IBM n
Merlin Hughes Baltimore Technologies n
Chris Kaler Microsoft n
Charles Knouse Oblix a
Chris Kurt Microsoft n
Guillermo Lao ContentGuard a
Kelvin Lawrence IBM a
Hal Lockhart BEA y
Prateek Mishra Netegrity a
Ronald Monzillo Sun Microsystems y
Tim Moses Entrust a
Anthony Nadalin IBM n
TJ Pannu ContentGuard a
Ed Reed Novell y
Irving Reid Baltimore Technologies n
Peter Rostin RSA Security n
Jerry Schwarz Oracle y
Senthil Sengodan Nokia a
Shawn Sharp Cyclone Commerce y
Frank Seibenlist Argonne National Lab y
Gene Thurston AmberPoint y
Ganesh Vaideeswaran Documentum a
Sirish Vepa Sybase a
John Weiland Navy a
Pete Wenzel SeeBeyond a


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Anderson 
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 3:07 PM
To: OASIS WSSTC (E-mail)
Subject: [wss] Minutes for Telecon, Tuesday 8 April 2003

Minutes for WSSTC Telecon, Tuesday 8 April 2003
Dial in info: 1-913-905-1400  Passcode: 214098
Minutes taken by Steve Anderson


    - Minutes from 25 March 2003 meeting accepted (unanimous)
    - TC will hold a first sanctioned interop event and F2F in mid June
      (passed with 14 for, 10 against, 13 abstaining)
  New (General) Action Items:
    - Paul to post interop/F2F voting suggestions

  Issues List Action Items & Status Updates:
    - none
                             Raw Notes

> Agenda:
> 1. Roll call

- Attendance attached to bottom of these minutes
- Quorum achieved

> 2. Review minutes from previous meeting (3/25/2003)
>    < http://www.oasis-open.org/archives/wss/200303/msg00062.html >

- [VOTE] unanimous consent, accepted

> 3. Web page migration update (quick status update) 

- Kelvin: is anyone having problems?
- Martijn: was getting Javascript errors, is there an address to send
  questions/problems to?
- Kelvin: write to webmaster@oasis-open.org

> 4. Discuss any remaining interop related issues

- Chris: we've closed all the issues
- just waiting for Tony to send updated core spec based on last call
- Kelvin: that would be draft -12
- Tony: it's done, but hasn't been able to post it
- should have it posted by this evening
- Ron: has question on scenarios, about encryption
    - we could represent the key use for encryption in a couple 
      different ways
    - there can be some variability in how we represent the encrypted
      data, via ref list in header, or an encrypted key with refs
    - Hal: scenarios have
- Hal: also has question on scenarios
    - thinks the encrypted key should be first
    - Chris: correct, will fix right away
- Hal: choice of using 'content' rather than 'element'
    - Chris: correct, should be 'element', will fix
- Hal: was trying to understand scenario 3, needs some editing to make
    - Chris: how about we work together on making that acceptable
- Hal: also had question about intentions with 'TBD's in the doc
    - Chris: just wanted to do as little manual SOAP as necessary
    - will get responses added in
- Chris: will attempt to get new rev out today/tomorrow
- Martijn: question about scenario 2
    - Chris: we will have pre-assigned certificates we'll give out to
    - Martijn: another point, will usernames/passwords be known before?
    - will passwords be reverse of username?
    - Chris: what to people want to do?
    - Ron: why bother reversing them?
    - Chris: just didn't want to reuse username directly, to demonstrate
      that we are processing passwords
    - Jerry: asking for preloaded set of uids/pwds
    - Chris: will propose a set

> 5. Discussion of next F2F place and time

- Kelvin: not sure what folks can see of the ballot results, may just
  be the numbers
- had a fair spread of responses
- net was around May/June
- Chris: interop testing is more of a company activity, but the vote
  was on an individual basis
- Hal: can you capture that with data available to the chairs?
- [checking results]
- Chris: for those that voted for a date, were you voting for a date
  you'd have software?
- seems to be 'yes'
- Ron: most were picking a date we'd have an implementation by
- Kelvin: there may well be more than one of these events, and the goal
  isn't to embarrass those that don't participate
- Paul: if that's the case, there are some with implementations now, so
  can we not have an earlier event?
- Kelvin: that's what we were trying to arrive at
- Hal: even if we decide on an earliest possibility, logistics would
  dictate it being no earlier than May
- Chris: here's the by-company tally
	- 6 for May, 6 for June, 3-4 for July
- proposes doing it late May, then again late June or July
- Ron: why not just target June?
- Chris: there are things we can learn from the earlier event that will
  benefit the later event
- Ron: you've got 9-10 companies that won't be ready until June
- Paul: having fewer is actually easier
- Tony: should everyone wait until you are ready?
- Ron: critical mass is around June, and now we've changed the 
  discussion to deal with 2 events rather than 1
- Paul: the intent is to improve the spec, and there are 6 companies
  that are willing to meet in May to do that
- Ron: since discussion has changed, that would have affected the ballot
- Chris: interprets poll to show that there is a group ready and willing
  to meet in May, and another group in June
- can't see how meeting with those that are ready in May could do
  anything but help
- Ron: will those traveling to the May event turn around and travel to
  another event in June?
- Kelvin: let's slow down, consider what is best for the spec
- Ed: providing insight on Novell's vote of July
    - wanted to allow for as much time as possible
    - would like to see one sooner if sufficient number of participants
      are ready
    - Novell would participate in sooner event if possible
- Kelvin: when we talked in Baltimore about this first, several folks
  talked about how a big bang first event would make things difficult
- we should have an expectation of doing this at least twice
- Don: there's an elephant in the room we are ignoring, the marketing
  aspects, which the ealier/smaller group will benefit from
- Kelvin: agrees, and we have discussed not making a big press issue
  of these efforts, and even avoided tagging the doc set with any
  'interop' terms
- Rob: we all agreed in Baltimore NOT to do marketing around this
- Kelvin: agrees, sees it as a gentlepersons' agreement to treat it
- Jerry: we don't always have control over marketing arms
- Hal: minutes and activities are open in OASIS, so it's not hard for
  the public to find this out
- Ed: suggests pulling July desires back into June, where everyone
  can participate, and any earlier private testing results can be
  provided on the list
- Kelvin: recalls W3C/OASIS meeting in Boston, where timely progress
  was clearly called for
- concerned that delaying the event will allow things to drag out and
  miss that directive
- Ed: thinks progress shouldn't be held up because of 1 company
- Ron: would like to focus on one event
- Ron: [MOTION] To hold event, based on scenarios XXX, in mid June
- Ed: seconds, reiterates usefulness of April/May private testing 
- Tony: what would be difference in that vs. having smaller interop
  event in April/May
- Chris: everyone's been discouraging making a big deal out of the
  interop effort, but this distinction seems to make the June event
  more of a big deal
- Ed: bilateral, over-the-internet testing is what he is envisioning
- if you have travel budget to spend, great, but don't make it a TC
- Chris: don't see the need to discourage those that want to meet F2F,
  which is how this kind of testing works best
- has a set of people sitting in a holding pattern, who could be 
  providing useful results
- Tony: we can't make it in June, May is it
- [returning to motion]
- Chris: is this to just have one in June, or to ONLY have one in June?
- Ed: the only TC-sanctioned event is June, and all other private,
  informal testing results are welcomed
- [MOTION restated] TC will hold a first interop event and F2F in mid
- Don: friendly amendment, to add 'sanctioned'
- [MOTION restated] TC will hold a first sanctioned interop event and 
  F2F in mid June
- Chris: wants to comment that it is not to our mutual advantage to 
  have unsanctioned testing
- [ ... more discussion ... ]
- call to question
- [VOTE] 14 yes, 10 no, 13 abstain, therefore motion passes
- quorum re-verified
- strawpoll of who can participate in June, for interop and F2F?
- Steve: suggests on online ballot on dates, etc
- will be looking for location either central or western US
- Kelvin: thinking we'll do interop first, maybe 2 days, then do F2F,
  also maybe 2 days
- Chris: suggesting doing interop in morning and F2F in afternoon, for
  2-3 days
- concerned with total length of time for those that participate in both
- Paul: if it's on West coast, begin interop on Monday pm, so folks can
  travel Mon morning, continuing Tues am, then hold F2F Tues pm through
  Thurs am
- Kelvin: concerned with setup time for people coming off the plane
  Mon mid-day
- Hal: nothing preventing people from working Mon evening
- Paul: how much post-interop spec work is there to do?
- Kelvin: thinks there are around 10 issues
- Paul: not sure how to allot time for interop & post-interop spec
- Martijn: thinks it's useful to block testing time separate from F2F
- advocates 1.5 days testing & 1-1.5 days of F2F work
- Ron: what about conducting testing & F2F discussion concurrently?
- Kelvin: probably have a mixture of individuals that would want to be
  involved with both
- Paul: proposes noon Monday to noon Thursday format
- [discussion of online voting]
- [ACTION] Paul to post interop/F2F voting suggestions
- Jerry: wants to clarify that post-interop discussion can carry on
  prior to interop event
- Kelvin: agrees

> 6. Update from the editors

- Kelvin: saw one update from PhilG
- any other editorial updates?
- seems to be none
- PhilHB: has not seen comments on his docs
- Tim: if this is for the X509 profile, he has posted comments
- PhilHB: found them, will review
- Ron: there were a significant number of comments from Frederick, which
  caused a re-write
- will produce another rev in the next week or so
- Kelvin: generally need editors to verify our links to other docs

> 7. Discuss post interop spec issues

- none

> 8. Other business

- Martijn: question about applying XML Signature to documents using
  SOAP with attachments
- there was a document from Frederick, but is there anything more up to
- Chris: there are other groups working in this space, and we should
  wait to see what progress they make
- Ron: we do discuss how to encrypt an attachment, does that use some
  unique facility of XML Encryption?
- Chris: it uses cypher reference
- Ron: how might this relate to signing?
- [discussion]

> 9. Adjourn

- Adjourned
- will meet again in 2 weeks


Attendance of Voting Members:

  Gene Thurston AmberPoint
  Frank Seibenlist Argonne National Lab
  Merlin Hughes Baltimore Technologies
  Irving Reid Baltimore Technologies
  Peter Dapkus BEA
  Hal Lockhart BEA
  Guillermo Lao ContentGuard
  TJ Pannu ContentGuard
  Shawn Sharp Cyclone Commerce
  Ganesh Vaideeswaran Documentum
  Tim Moses Entrust
  Toshihiro Nishimura Fujitsu
  Yutaka Kudo Hitachi
  Maryann Hondo IBM
  Kelvin Lawrence IBM
  Anthony Nadalin IBM
  Nataraj Nagaratnam IBM
  Don Flinn Individual
  Phil Griffin Individual
  Venkat Danda IONA Technology
  Paul Cotton Microsoft
  Chris Kaler Microsoft
  Chris Kurt Microsoft
  Prateek Mishra Netegrity
  Frederick Hirsch Nokia
  Senthil Sengodan Nokia
  Ed Reed Novell
  Charles Knouse Oblix
  Steve Anderson OpenNetwork
  Jerry Schwarz Oracle
  Eric Gravengaard Reactivity
  Rob Philpott RSA Security
  Peter Rostin RSA Security
  Martijn de Boer SAP
  Pete Wenzel SeeBeyond
  Yassir Elley Sun Microsystems
  Ronald Monzillo Sun Microsystems
  Sirish Vepa Sybase
  Jan Alexander Systinet
  Don Adams TIBCO
  John Weiland US Navy
  Phillip Hallam-Baker VeriSign
Attendance of Observers or Prospective Members:

  John Hughes Entegrity

Membership Status Changes:

  Michael Nguyen The IDA of Singapore - Granted voting status after call
  John Hughes Entegrity - Granted voting status after call
  Padraig Moloney NASA - Requested membership 3/31/2003


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