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Subject: OASSIS WS-Security TC Minutes, February 10, 2004

1.  Call to order, roll call
2.  Reading / approving minutes of last meeting (January 27th)
3.  Submission status
4.  Issues list review
5.  Status of other profiles / interop planning etc
6.  Discuss possible New Orleans F2F (not much feedback on the list)
7.  Other business
8.  Adjournment

1.  The meeting was called to order 10:15 AM, Chris Kaler was in the Chair,
Kelvin Lawrence arrived later due to illness.  John R. Weiland, US Navy,
acted as recording secretary for this meeting.

Steve Anderson did Roll Call:
Attendance of voting members

  Gene Thurston AmberPoint
  Frank Siebenlist Argonne National Lab
  Peter Dapkus BEA
  Symon Chang CommerceOne
  Davanum Srinivas CA
  Thomas DeMartini ContentGuard
  TJ Pannu ContentGuard
  Sam Wei Documentum
  John Hughes Entegrity
  Toshihiro Nishimura Fujitsu
  Kefeng Chen GeoTrust
  Irving Reid HP
  Jason Rouault HP
  Yutaka Kudo Hitachi
  Paula Austel IBM
  Kelvin Lawrence IBM
  Anthony Nadalin IBM
  Nataraj Nagaratnam IBM
  Don Flinn Individual
  Bob Morgan Individual
  Paul Cotton Microsoft
  Vijay Gajjala Microsoft
  Chris Kaler Microsoft
  Ellen McDermott Microsoft
  John Shewchuk Microsoft
  Richard Levinson Netegrity
  Prateek Mishra Netegrity
  Frederick Hirsch Nokia
  Abbie Barbir Nortel
  Lloyd Burch Novell
  Ed Reed Novell
  Charles Knouse Oblix
  Steve Anderson OpenNetwork
  Vipin Samar Oracle
  Ramana Turlapati Oracle
  Eric Gravengaard Reactivity
  Rob Philpott RSA Security
  Martijn de Boer SAP
  Blake Dournaee Sarvega
  Pete Wenzel SeeBeyond
  Jonathan Tourzan Sony
  Yassir Elley Sun Microsystems
  Jeff Hodges Sun Microsystems
  Ronald Monzillo Sun Microsystems
  Don Adams TIBCO
  John Weiland US Navy
  Phillip Hallam-Baker VeriSign

Attendance of prospective members or observers

  Mike McIntosh IBM
  Alan Geller Microsoft
  Corinna Witt BEA
  Senthil Sengodan Nokia

Membership status changes

  Mike McIntosh IBM - Granted voting status after 2/10/2004 call
  Shawn Gunsolley Booz Allen Hamilton - Lost prospective status after
2/10/2004 call
  Joe Barbush Novell - Lost prospective status after 2/10/2004 call
  Kevin Lewis Documentum - Lost voting status after 2/10/2004 call
  John Killian Booz Allen Hamilton - Requested membership 1/29/2004
  Maneesh Sahu Individual - Requested membership 2/5/2004
  Corinna Witt BEA - Requested membership 2/9/2004

45 out of 60 were present at beginning of meeting, quorum achieved.

2.  Reading and approving Jan 27 minutes:
     NO objections. Minutes approved.  

3.  Mission Status. 
     Document for submission on the 15th Posted by Kelvin.  
     Edits made and revised, ready to go end of week.  
     No comments from TC.

     Thanks for Hard work and testimonials.

4.  Issues List 33 posted by Vijay Gaijala  

244, 247 - Pending - Updates to the Kerberos Profile.  Chris working with
to get that back in shape based on the new URL revisions.

234 - Closed - Ron Clarify SAML requirements in SAML profile - which version
Martijn de Boer has editorial change. Action to track this.

254 Comments on core spec - Tony Nadalin compiling list of errata, this will
be added.  
Chris and Kelvin Spoke to Karl Best, proposed appendix to end of 
document, assuming all the votes go through, labeled as a non normative
errata not subject to review but has some errata considerations.
Paul Cotton asks will we have to create a new copy of whole document for
of errata. URL to website with dynamic errata list suggested.
Ron Monzillo asked if we will publish errata with document for final
standardization vote.  Appendix would be published that identifies
errata as not being voted on with spec, errata in progress.  John Weiland
mentions that W3C has current, latest and errata links on web site.  
Errata mostly contains editorial comments received after vote, no normative
changes. Ron Monzillo is concerned the errata's existence will not be known.

256 STR attributes not protected - Issue Split one Pending, one Postponed - 
Mike McIntosh -  came from Hal - when dereferencing transform is used, 
on a security token reference, you replace the entire security token
reference and you not sign any usage attributes that are on the 
security token reference itself. Ron Monzillo clarifies - Reference in 
signedinfo to an STR with a transform on STR, bites that go into
the input stream of the digest are only the bites of token not attribute
of the STR. Mike saw the solution as Signing twice, with dereferencing
transform and without, was suggested 
Ron mentioned the inverse case when you have an embedded token should 
we use the STR and said no.  Should we use the deferencing transform on an
embedded STR because attributes would be lost.  Ron thinks the dereferencing
transform should not be written the way it is, Don Flinn commented last
dereferencing transform should include the bites of the STR and the Token
there would never be this complexity.  Mike's workaround is OK if everyone
uses it.
Usage and other supporting attributes could be important.  SAML uses
and binding.  

Issue split one marked pending and added to errata of security
one marked postponed, for addressing in future version.

258 Closed duplicate of 254. 

259, 260 editorial changes pending add to errata.

261 How do we handle the sender voucher scenario for SAML -
Don Flinn mentions that impersonation is not delegation, client control
is necessary of which delegatee accepts delegation, and restrictions on 
what delegatee can do.  Ron said we are not attempting delegation in this
Invocation subject difficult to determine in high level bits, not well
Richard Levinson agrees Sender vouchers are not quite handled properly.
One sender voucher scenario mushroomed into set of four distinct use cases
with separate intermediary in SAML assertion authority, subject deals with
intermediary and recipient can either trust intermediary of authority,
or both in varying degrees.  Don and Ron have use cases that try to
stay away from these complexities.  Issue of where the keyinfo is pointing
the web services signature. In Ron's use case the keyinfo appears to be
under the subject confirmation element
in the sender voucher assertion, that may violate the SAML core spec that
the keyinfo subject confirmation should represent the key held by the
not the attester.  Ron believes the SAML core spec should be changed, 
Rich thinks a compromise can be reached without changing the core spec.

Rich Levinson suggests Security consideration or non normative statement is
needed concerning 
impersonation versus delegation to prevent confusion.

Issue still Open. Ronald Monzillo, Richard Levinson, Rob Philpot and 
BoB Morgan will work impersonation issue on SAML TC List.

262 - similar sender voucher comments on interop comments - closed -
document ok until SAML discussions require change.

263 - Open enumerations post v1 review period - postponed -
Chris Kaler mentioned there was a great discussion on list,

Irving Reid says, as Eve Mahler pointed out, there is dead code in schema.
There is a piece of definition there that nothing else in the schema links
to, not
used in verification. list should be put in normative text rather than

issue postponed.

5.  Status of other profiles / interop planning etc

Best time to run a virtual interop was discusses.  Interop will be 
a rerun of the previous interop tests against the latest schema, giving
participants a chance to check their latest implementations against the
Last week of February was not good, due to conflict with RSA conference.
1 - 5 of March, was OK, pending objections from email thread.

SAML and Xrml profile interop may be 5th through 8th of April,
pending objections from email thread.

6.  Discuss possible New Orleans F2F (not much feedback on the list)
  Chris suspects the issues before the TC does not warrant a F2F.

7.  Other Business:

Final role check and end of meeting 1054 AM.

Meeting adjourned. 

Very Respectfully,

John R. Weiland
Information Technology Specialist 
GS 2210 (APPSW) Code 38 Naval Medicine OnLine

Naval Medical Information Mngmt Cntr
Bldg 27
8901 Wisconsin Ave
Bethesda, Md. 20889-5605

A remark of Archimedes quoted by Pappus of Alexandria

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