RE: [wss] xml:id proposal

["Paul Cotton" <pcotton@microsoft.com>]

> +1 to your comments for backwards compat. with the assumption that the
> "may" in #3 is capitalized to correspond with the RFC 2119 "MAY".

Note that the lower case "may" was in Frederick's original proposal.
Actually I think he meant to use it in the lower case English usage but
I am completely flexible on this point.

> On #4, I would advocate that the wording be stronger to indicate that
> within a specific document, one or the other must be used but not a
mix
> of both.

I don't think we can do this since it implies that someone has control
over all the elements in their messages.  It is very possible that
someone is defining the schema to be used and the mixed case has to be
possible.

> It may be harder to manage ID's and IDREF's across two
> different processing mechanisms.

Not if all the id attributes are implemented corrected and as per the
existing specifications and the forthcoming xml:id spec.

/paulc

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada 
17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3 
Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329 
mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com

  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
> Sent: September 1, 2005 3:52 PM
> To: Paul Cotton
> Cc: Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com; wss@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [wss] xml:id proposal
> 
> Paul:
> 
> +1 to your comments for backwards compat. with the assumption that the
> "may" in #3 is capitalized to correspond with the RFC 2119 "MAY".
> 
> On #4, I would advocate that the wording be stronger to indicate that
> within a specific document, one or the other must be used but not a
mix
> of both.  As it is currently worded, it only states that for a single
> element you must use one or the other.  Rationale:  It is simply
cleaner
> and more elegant than mixing and matching two ID types on a single XML
> instance.  It may be harder to manage ID's and IDREF's across two
> different processing mechanisms.
> 
> I think that we agreed on the last call to make the final decision on
> our next call.
> 
> Duane
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Cotton wrote:
> 
> >I would like to offer a series of amendments to your proposal.  I am
> >offering these amendments since I believe:
> >
> >a) we need to ensure that WSS 1.1 is as backwards compatible as
possible
> >with WSS 1.0
> >b) we should NOT mandate the immediate implementation of xml:id since
it
> >will take some time for implementations to adopt the future W3C
> >Recommendation (but we should permit it)
> >c) your proposed text incorrectly asserts that xml:id is of "schema
type
> >ID".
> >
> >I believe my amendments still help achieve what you want to do and
hope
> >that the TC will be able to adopt the amended proposal.
> >
> >/paulc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Add to section 4, ID References,
> >>
> >>(1) Replace "attribute" at line 494 with
> >>
> >>"attribute and the xml:id attribute [XMLID]."
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I support this change since the list is prefaced with "also allows
use".
> >
> >
> >
> >>XMLID is a reference to the W3C XML ID Recommendation, to be added
to
> >>the references section of the document.
> >>
> >>(2) Add additional bullet after line 500:
> >>* Global xml:id attributes on elements
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I support this change since it just is a list of types of ids.
> >
> >
> >
> >>(3) Add following paragraph right before 4.1, after line 504
> >>
> >>Tokens and elements that are defined in this specification and
> >>related profiles to use wsu:Id attributes should do so, additional
> >>profiles and other elements to be signed may choose to use xml:id or
> >>wsu:Id. All receivers MUST be able to identify XML elements carrying
> >>either a wsu:Id or an xml:id attribute as representing an attribute
> >>of schema type ID and process it accordingly.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Rationale: We cannot make support of xml:id mandatory since it breaks
> >backwards compatibility with WSS 1.0 and it is inappropriate to force
> >implementers to support xml:id so soon after it becomes a
> >Recommendation. Note as well that xml:id attributes are NOT of
"schema
> >type ID".
> >
> >I propose to substitute the following text for the above change:
> >
> >Tokens and elements that are defined in this specification and
> >related profiles to use wsu:Id attributes should do so, additional
> >profiles and other elements to be signed may choose to use xml:id or
> >wsu:Id. All receivers MUST be able to identify XML elements carrying
> >a wsu:Id attribute as representing an attribute of schema type ID and
> >process it accordingly. All receivers SHOULD be able to identify XML
> >elements carrying a xml:id attribute as representing an id attribute
and
> >process it accordingly.
> >
> >
> >
> >>(4) Add following to end of last paragraph in 4.1, at line 521
> >>
> >>In addition, the xml:id attribute may be used. Applications MUST NOT
> >>specify both a wsu:ID and xml:id attribute on a single element, this
> >>is an XML requirement that only one attribute of type xsd:ID be
> >>specified on a single element.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Rationale: Again xml:id attributes are NOT of "schema type xsd:ID".
> >
> >I propose to substitute the following text for the above change:
> >
> >In addition, the xml:id attribute may be used. Applications MUST NOT
> >specify both a wsu:ID and xml:id attribute on a single element. It
> >is an XML requirement that only one id attribute be specified on a
> >single element.
> >
> >
> >
> >>(5) Change following into 4.2 Id Schema, at line 550:
> >>
> >>Replace
> >>  "this attribute definition into their parsers"
> >>
> >>with
> >>  "this attribute definition and that of xml:id into their parsers"
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Rationale: I do not think this change is correct since it implies
that
> >xml:id is of "schema type xsd:ID" and this is NOT correct.
> >
> >I propose that no change is needed to Section 4.2 since it only needs
to
> >discuss wsu:ID which it already does.
> >
> >/paulc
> >
> >Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> >17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3
> >Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329
> >mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Frederick Hirsch [mailto:frederick.hirsch@nokia.com]
> >>Sent: August 31, 2005 5:19 PM
> >>To: Oasis WSS
> >>Cc: Frederick Hirsch
> >>Subject: [wss] xml:id proposal
> >>
> >>Here is a concrete proposal to add xml:id to WSS 1.1 core, in
> >>response to public review comment.
> >>
> >>Line numbers below refer to latest draft which is public review with
> >>subsequent committee changes [1]
> >>
> >>Add to section 4, ID References,
> >>
> >>(1) Replace "attribute" at line 494 with
> >>
> >>"attribute and the xml:id attribute [XMLID]."
> >>
> >>XMLID is a reference to the W3C XML ID Recommendation, to be added
to
> >>the references section of the document.
> >>
> >>(2) Add additional bullet after line 500:
> >>* Global xml:id attributes on elements
> >>
> >>(3) Add following paragraph right before 4.1, after line 504
> >>
> >>Tokens and elements that are defined in this specification and
> >>related profiles to use wsu:Id attributes should do so, additional
> >>profiles and other elements to be signed may choose to use xml:id or
> >>wsu:Id. All receivers MUST be able to identify XML elements carrying
> >>either a wsu:Id or an xml:id attribute as representing an attribute
> >>of schema type ID and process it accordingly.
> >>
> >>(4) Add following to end of last paragraph in 4.1, at line 521
> >>
> >>In addition, the xml:id attribute may be used. Applications MUST NOT
> >>specify both a wsu:ID and xml:id attribute on a single element, this
> >>is an XML requirement that only one attribute of type xsd:ID be
> >>specified on a single element.
> >>
> >>(5) Change following into 4.2 Id Schema, at line 550:
> >>
> >>Replace
> >>  "this attribute definition into their parsers"
> >>
> >>with
> >>  "this attribute definition and that of xml:id into their parsers"
> >>
> >>Attached is a red-lined PDF showing these changes in context, based
> >>on the public review draft (with the line added in the latest draft
> >>also marked).
> >>
> >>I propose we resolve this issue at the 19 Sept WSS call, since that
> >>should allow better information regarding the status of xml:id
> >>reaching W3C Recommendation status (earliest date of Recommendation
> >>is 9 September).
> >>
> >>regards, Frederick
> >>
> >>Frederick Hirsch
> >>Nokia
> >>
> >>
> >>[1] http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wss/download.php/
> >>13961/wss-v1.1-spec-draft-SOAPMessageSecurity-01.pdf
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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