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Subject: Re: Final Minutes WSS-TC 10.4.2004

On Oct 12, 2005, at 9:26 AM, Ron Williams wrote:

With Abbie's affiliation Fixed -


        Call to order/roll call    10.4.05 9:04:28 
Chairs: Kelvin Lawrence,
Secretary: Don Flinn
Minutes: Ron Williams

Attendance List

Voting Members

Maneesh         Sahu            Actional Corporation
Duane           Nickull         Adobe
Hal             Lockhart        BEA Systems, Inc.
Denis           Pilipchuk       BEA Systems, Inc.
Corinna         Witt            BEA Systems, Inc.
Rich            Levinson        Computer Associates
Thomas          DeMartini       ContentGuard
Dana            Kaufman         Forum Systems, Inc.
Toshihiro       Nishimura       Fujitsu Limited
Kefeng          Chen            GeoTrust
Irving          Reid            Hewlett-Packard
Kojiro          Nakayama        Hitachi
Derek           Fu              IBM
Kelvin          Lawrence        IBM
Mike            McIntosh        IBM
Anthony         Nadalin         IBM
Ron             Williams        IBM
Don             Flinn           Individual
Kate            Cherry          Lockheed Martin
Paul            Cotton          Microsoft Corporation
Vijay           Gajjala         Microsoft Corporation
Martin          Gudgin          Microsoft Corporation
Chris           Kaler           Microsoft Corporation
Frederick       Hirsch          Nokia Corporation
Abbie           Barbir          Nortel
Prateek         Mishra          Oracle Corporation
Vamsi           Motukuru        Oracle Corporation
Ben             Hammond         RSA Security
John            Linn            RSA Security
Rob             Philpott        RSA Security
Pete            Wenzel          SeeBeyond
Ronald          Monzillo        Sun Microsystems
John            Weiland         US Dept of the Navy
Hans            Granqvist       VeriSign


Steve        Anderson         BMC Software
Carolina    Canales-Valenzuela Ericsson
Jeff        Hodges         NeuStar, Inc.
Blake        Dournaee         Sarvega
Will         Raymond         Tibco

Member that regained voting status after 10/4/05 Meeting

Steve         Anderson         BMC Software
Jeff         Hodges         NeuStar, Inc.
Will          Raymond         Tibco

19 REQUIRED - 31 ATTENDING - Quorum Achieved
        Reading/Approving minutes of last meeting (Sept 20th) [1]    10.4.05 9:13:13 
            Approved by unanimous consent (no objections registered)    
        Review of actions from prior meeting minutes [1]    10.4.05 9:14:30 
            Actions are caught up - closed or made issues (Kelvin)    
        One Time Password proposal (continue discussion and try to reach     10.4.05 9:14:37 
    closure)    AM
Chris - limit discussion to 30 mintues
Paul Cotton - had questions answered during dialogue.
Paul Cotton - proposed way forward. Not convinced work is in scope for TC. Simple procedure: Have proponents move that work on OTP  profile is in scope, triggering an electronic ballot to TC to determine whether or not this is to be a deliverable.
Hans - Seems ec vote would take a long time.
Kelvin - if such a motion was put forward - Oasis has 15 days in which to call an electronic ballot - + 7 to 15 days for actual vote, and Oasis is responsible for the ballot. We'd be clarifying the charter, not amending it. 
Mary - 2/3 majority required for passage, no more than 1/4 voting no.

Rob - Work item is in scope - TC should decide whether we want to work on deliverable - asserts clarification not required.
Abby agrees with Paul as vote being the most efficient means to address issue.

Rob - TC has to decide whether or not TC wants to do the work, and then go forward with "official" mechanism (clarification vote). 

Kelvin - decide as a TC how to close issue.

Ask chair to work with TC Admin to determine whether OTP profile is in scope.

Will (tibco) - RSA assures us that OTP is unencumbered.

Kelvin - This TC is still operating under old TC rules.

Paul - TC Admin will be reluctant to "rule" on scope issue.

Mary - a vote by the TC to 

Abbie (Nortel) - Can we simply take a vote to see if the TC wants to do the work?

Hal - Only 3 or 4 individuals typically work on profiles, so issue of TC wanting to do the work boils down to those that do the work.

Kelvin - we get into situations that only a vote will break the stalemate. Pauls Proposal. Rob's work with TC admin offline. Mary said no admin ruling until a decision (vote) and appeal to admin.

Ron Monzillo - decide whether we want to take on the work.

(?) What is the objective of the TC following publication of the 1.1 specs.

TC - conversion to new IPR rules we have 18 months to switch or vote on shifting to new.

Hal - suggest a motion be made . . .

Hal - propose to do work - see if TC by simple majority wants to do the work. If yes, Paul can still call for formal charter clarification resulting in formal Oasis vote.

Hans - move to "vote on the amended proposal as sent out by john linn, 8.2005, WSS-OTP token profile.
Hal - seconded
Abby - seconded

Two questions on 
Tony - framework or technology - unclear as to what is being proposed as input, output, and ipr. Text is unclear.

Hans - input - two existing OTP proposals - RSA produced, and one that Verisign has produced - no IP on Verisign producted. This is a framework, not a mechanism.

John Lynn (RSA) - conceptually parallel - a method independant framework - no proposal for a particuluar method - the methods themseleves are not in scope of this proposal.

RSA - no claims at the level of the document (IPR)  - no claims and no evidence of any. Input document - won't submit if doesn't comply with IP rules.

Paul - have to disclose any IPR and that of any other contributor.

Asked and answered by RSA and Verisign

Will - proposal - do the work to create a framework who's purpose is to support a proprietary format
(discussion) disputes this . . .

Interop question -  is there a common format to be implemented and support to enable interop testing.

Three companies attest to framework - 

Paul - in the past - we actually physical interop testing - interop validates the framework - but underlying mechanisms don't need to be implemented by the participants.l

Hal - thinks there are one or more mechanisms that could be implemented for use in interop.

Only one framework in the past, and that was the core document.

Paul puts the questions - 
Hal and Abby Seconds
Kelvin - Roll Call Vote

(Ron's unofficial tally:
        yes    no    abstain
sandhu    (no repsonse)
nichol            a
thurston    (no response)
lockhart    y
fillchuck            a
witt        y
levinson    y
demaritni            a
kafuman            a
nishimuru            a
chen        (no response)
reid        y
nakamuro            a
foo        (no response)
hondo    (no response)
lawrence            a
mcintosh        n
nadalin        n
williams        n
flinn                a
cherry    y
cotton        n
gaya            n
gudge        n
kaler            n
hirsch    y
baiberi        n
mishra    y
motokuru    y
hammond    y
linn        y
philpott    y
dubour    (no response)
wenzel            a
monzillo    y
wailtand    y
hans        y

Hal - majority of non-abstenstions
14 yes - 8 no - 9 abstensions: Motion Carries)

Don Flinn's official tally:
Vote Details

Maneesh    Sahu                  
Duane    Nickull                 A
Gene        Thurston                  
Hal        Lockhart         Y
Denis    Pilipchuk                 A
Corinna    Witt              Y
Rich        Levinson         Y
Thomas    DeMartini                  A
Dana        Kaufman                  A
Toshihiro    Nishimura                 A
Kefeng    Chen                  
Irving    Reid              Y
Kojiro    Nakayama                  A
Derek    Fu                  
Maryann    Hondo                  
Kelvin    Lawrence                  A
Mike        McIntosh              N
Anthony    Nadalin              N
Ron        Williams              N
Don        Flinn                  A
Kate        Cherry         Y
Paul        Cotton              N
Vijay    Gajjala              N
Martin    Gudgin              N
Chris    Kaler              N
Frederick    Hirsch         Y
Abbie    Barbir              N
Prateek    Mishra         Y
Vamsi    Motukuru         Y
Ben        Hammond         Y
John        Linn              Y
Rob        Philpott         Y
Martijn    de Boer                  
Pete        Wenzel                  A
Ronald    Monzillo         Y
John        Weiland         Y
Hans        Granqvist         Y
yes             14
no              8
abstain          9

Paul move to clarify charter to indicate OTP work is in scope (OTP one time password token profile), to add it to the deliverables.
Abby - seconded

Kellvin - Oasis must call the vote
Mary - believes Paul is asking whether the TC needs to change the vote. Any work undertaken by the TC may be appealed to TC admin.

Mary - Appeal to TC admin 
TC votes they would like to clarify the charter and undertake the work item with wording as to what the charter should say.

You can't clarify the charter and change it - these are two separate processses.

Why must whole TC take up the issue?

TC has voted to create an OTP profile.

Rob Philpott objects to Paul's motion. My opinion that when TC accepts work item - its supposed to be in scope. There is an appeal process whereby 3 or more can appeal. - Withdrawn

Hal - agrees - 

Tony - you can always call for a clarification.

Chris - vote on the final text of the charter clarification.

Paul withdraws motion to clarify charter, Abby agrees

        Issues list review    10.4.05 10:25:16 
Pending Review
430 - comments on the call from Mishra/Oracle: closed w/out objection
432 - : closed w/out objection
433 - : closed w/out objection
434 - schema corrections to SAML token 1.1 (scott cantor): closed w/out objection
436 - comments from Mark Wahl: closed w/out objection
437 - comments from Mark Wahl - username profile: closed w/out objection
438 - comments from Wahl - : closed w/out objection

334 - XML Id Issue: Tony Nadalin to incorporate changes: closed w/out objection
404 - RFC 4120 and 1510: Tony - changes made, not on list: pending
405 - (405 done, 429 not complete- monzillo): move to PENDING REVIEW
429 - still being discussed; ron and gudge discussion, about encrypted key - related to kerberos token profile. Ref type should be changed to token type (gudge): OPEN w/out objections

Kelvin - for J Hodges - 428 "closed because no action proposed" - Gudge to take AI to trace 428 and was Jeff's proposal on the table when voted. 

439 - comments from J Hodges on call - referenced but not cited. Editorial Fixes - changes made, not posted (tony): Status Pending
443 - J Hodges - WSU timestamp description: made not posted (tony): PENDING

444 - WSS Page contains 10.04 errata - but have backed out certain errata. Paul requests  it be taken out when fixed or adopt proposal via x.509v3 suggestion. Make errata reflect changes in 1.1 document (Paul). X.509 URI's are out of sync with current version (1.1) of the document. (Paul) Wants errata to reflect multiple decisions. (Gudge) replace "#X.509" with "#X.509v1". (Tony) we'll be breaking 1.0 versions by doing this. (Paul) by leaving the "incorrect" URI in the errata will encourage people to continue to do the wrong thing.

No objections to making the errata changes (URI Only).
Gudge - Net effect of three issues is to "fix" URI reference.: remains OPEN

427 - : CLOSED w/ no action w/out objections
435 - pratik sent a notice to vijay leaving a couple of items. (tony) open item of formal comback. (chris) have to close public comments - missing a few issues from public interop., related to 431: OPEN
445 - changes from erratta no included in v1 - editorial change: moved to PENDING
446 - clarification for STR transform, request someone to make changes and propose text. (Gudge takes AI): OPEN

440, 441, 443, (Chris) Wants some discussion on the list so wee can close these.

        Public review status/outlook for 1.1 final phases    
        Other business    
            Final Roll - Call    
            Mike McIntosh    
        Adjournment    10.4.05 10:59:42 
Motion to adjourn and second.

<WS-SEC TC Minutes 10.4.2005.opml>
<Minutes 10.4.2005 Final.pdf>


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