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Subject: [xacml] XACML March 21, 2002 Minutes

Title: XACML Conference Call Minutes

XACML Conference Call

Date: Thursday, March 21, 2002

Time: 10:00 AM EST

Tel: 512-225-3050 Access Code: 65998

Minutes of Meeting



We did not have quorum and as a result closed issues and previous minutes could not be voted on. We reviewed issues from last call and F2F. There are still a couple outstanding action items from those. The next Face to Face will be either in Milan or Northern California. Carlisle will be sending out a poll to determine the preferred location and dates. The proposed dates include the beginning and end of the week of April 22 and a proposal to go 2 days. We will be closing the policy model subcommittee and switching discussion to XML Schema. The new subcommittee will meet at the same time on Mondays, but needs a new chair. In order to move forward, though all policy model issues on the issues list need to be officially closed which means they need formal proposed resolutions and voting to close them. The next conference call in two weeks will be critical to have quorum so we can close these. If not, we need to immediately move to email voting and try and get them closed.


Action Items

  1. Simon to send presentation from F2F3 to Michiharu for website
  2. Anne to propose a new resolution to PM 2-05
  3. [Hal, Konstantin] Produce XACML "primer" that provides more verbal text describing function and use of the various element types.
  4. Carlisle will send out poll on dates for next F2F
  5. Carlisle will send out note to list noting closing of Policy Subcommittee
  6. Ken will update issues list so we can vote on closed issues for April 4th. Collect and send out email to make sure none that have been missed.
  7. Ernesto would look into pseudocode for possible candidates
  8. Michiharu to post material presented at the last F2F meeting on the website
  9. Chair needed for new Schema subcommittee



No votes because quorum not achieved



Proposed Agenda:

10:00-10:10 Roll Call and Agenda Review

10:10-10:15 Vote to accept minutes of March 7 meeting and March 11 & 12 F2F meeting



10:15-10:20 Review of Action Items (see 3/7 & F2F minutes)

10:20-10:30 Report of Policy Model Sub-Committee

10:30-10:45 Discussion of Overall Status

10:45-11:00 Discussion of location and dates for next face-to-face meeting


Roll Call - Quorum not achieved

Voting Members

Ken Yagen, Crosslogix

Hal Lockhart, Entegrity

Carlisle Adams, Entrust

Tim Moses, Entrust

Michiharu Kudoh, IBM

Suresh Damodaran, Sterling Commerce

Sekhar Vajjhala, Sun Microsystems

Anne Anderson, Sun Microsystems


Prospective Members

Konstantin Beznosov, Hitachi


Raw Minutes (taken by Ken Yagen)


10:12 roll call 7 members so not quorum


Review of agenda - removed items that require voting


10:16 Review old action items

From 3/11

  1. Simon to send presentation to Michiharu for website

Not yet

  1. James MacLean to take a look at XrML submission to MPEG 21

James was not present; Hal has not done anything

  1. Ken to update issues list with results of votes


  1. Proposed agenda for Face to Face needs to be put together (Carlisle)
  2. Specific proposal needed to close PM 1-04 (Anne)

Not ready to close; Depends on XML Syntax, so not ready for a proposal

Reference to attributes in XML predicates

  1. PM 2-05 needs to be made consistent with glossary (Anne)

Ensuring completeness - Not just a glossary issue so not ready to close but could be closed if worded properly. If accept that PDP has one base policy, can be reworded and closed. Anne may go ahead and propose a new resolution

From F2F

[Tim] Update specification to Version 11, incorporating decisions from this meeting.


[Tim, Michiharu] Propose specific set of mathematical operators and associated syntax appropriate for XACML requirements. Present at the subcommittee meeting on March 25, 2002.

To occur next Monday. People should be familiar with v11 and make any suggestions from that baseline. Mathmatical operators are in v11.

[Hal, Konstantin] Provide more verbal text describing function and use of the various element types. To be done after Tim provides Version 11. The verbal text might be a type of "primer" on XACML; something to introduce XML neophytes to the way the language is intended to be used.

Not done yet. Bill Parducci has offered something more visual.

Konstantin - it could be included in primer.

Tim - could probably substitute them for current schema fragments in document. If just add them though, document will get larger.

Hal - material can be generated quite easily with a tool from the XML schema

Carlisle - keeping primer up to date might be a lot of work

[Carlisle] Determine availability of sites and dates for next face-to-face meeting. Date preference order: week of April 15, week of April 22, week of April 29. Location preference order:

  1. Univ. of Milan (Ernesto,Pierangela)
  2. SF Bay area (Ken)
  3. Manhattan Beach (Bill)
  4. Burlington (Anne, Sekhar).

Constraints: Michiharu not available week of April 29. Sekhar has problems with weeks of April 15 or April 22.

[All] Determine acceptability of Univ. of Milan as a site for the next face-to-face meeting.


10:28 Discussion of location and dates for next face-to-face meeting

Hal - Is some price premium to go to Milan

Ken - checking on availability to host; is 10 minutes from airport

Anne - April 22/23 Pierangela could host it in Milan

Hal - any conflicts that week? Sekhar had a conflict

Sekhar - will not be attending that week

Hal - Focus on 2 days 4/22 and 4/23 in either Milan or California

Tim - What about 2 days?

Discussion that may be helpful to have half day before or afterwards and Thurs/Friday may be another option.

Options will be 22/23 or 25/26 with an extra half day. Carlisle will send out a poll


10:36 Report of Policy Model Sub-Committee (Anne)

Discussion aF2F resolved some issues

V11 to be sent out by Tim

- Ernesto would look into pseudocode for possible candidates. Anne used pseudocode to explain global deny. This is a new issue. Combiners don't need to be expressed in formal notation, but the mandatory ones should for interoperability tests

Carlisle - Spoke with Pierangela about closing committee and she agrees we have talked about all major topics. Can be closed down and replaced with Schema details subcommittee. Will send a not out to that effect but new committee will meet at the same time. Need a new chair - Pierangela suggested Ernesto as a possibility.

Anne - encourage that close model issues so we know we are done.

Ken will update issues list so we can vote on closed issues for April 4th. Collect and send out email to make sure none that have been missed.

Hal - some proposals on the list, but some active members have not been heard from


10:42 Discussion of Overall Status

Drive is to close policy model open issues and meet 4/1 deadline to move to Schema

  • 01 Apr 2002 - Concepts complete, begin focus on XML schema
  • 01 Apr 2002 - Liaison statement to SAML (include proposal for SAML extensions)

SAML issues should be in Issues List; if not, people should get them in there.


Discussion between Michiharu and Tim on use of MathML for mathematical operators and what was included in the v11 document


Hal - any specific proposals to close various issues that anyone would like to discuss.

Can vote on email if are not being cleared fast enough

Carlisle - Oasis calls for 5 working day vote and need quorum of voters in favor

Tim - Declare to close any issue related to model at next meeting and make people aware of that so they should be present

Need to get agenda out earlier and highlight fact these will be voted on

Ken will get issues out early enough that people can review them and be ready to vote or discuss if there are still issues

Minutes to reflect concern that people participate so we can close out these Policy Model issues and move forward


10:55 Adjourn

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