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Subject: Minutes for 22 October 2009 TC Meeting

Time: 10:00 am EDT   *** Note USA still EDT (not EST) ***
Tel: 513-241-0892 Access Code: 65998

Minutes for 22 October 2009 TC Meeting:

10:00 - 10:05
  Roll Call:

  Erik Rissanen
  Paul Tyson
  Gareth Richards
  Jan Herrmann
  Bill Parducci
  Rich Levinson
  Hal Lockhart
  Dilli Arumugam
  Seth Proctor
  John Tolbert
  David Staggs

  Prateek Mishra

   we have quorum

  Approve Minutes:
    15 October 2009 TC Meeting

      No objection to appoval: approved.

10:05 - 10:10 Administrivia

  Meeting time: 10AM USA ET (still EDT, has caused confusion in past)

     Europe, also has yet to change.

  XSPA progress to OASIS Standard:
   Ballot available: 1 vote per OASIS Member org: 
   Voting period (Oct 16 - Oct 31, 2009, 11:45PM ET)
   Call for vote: Detailed voting instructions:

     Dave: have about 25 votes so far, about 1/2 of needed.
     Hal: if people have question who there org rep is, he can
	provide info for their org.

  XACML TC F2F planning: Straw Poll ballot: preferred dates,locations:

     Hal: about 50-50 east coast west coast
	but slight pref for west coast, so
	focus redwood city, 2nd week of Dec
	duration: 2-3 days, tentatively 
	 Tue-Thu: Dec 8,9,10

10:10 - 11:00 Issues

  Issue list reference

 New Issues:

  Multiple meanings of term "xpath-expression" - looking for clarity:
  (spinoff from issues 13,14,21) in Mult profile

    Jan: people get confused w multiple context of xpath-expr
    Erik: literal value for scope of attributes.
    Rich: issue not in spreadsheet yet
    Hal: proposed resolution: clarify text in appropriate context
->  Note: need a new issue number for this small editing change

  Reg-exp vs xpath analysis, in conjunction w issue 11: 
  Hier: resource-id, performance consideration:

    Erik: w xpath matching, need to enumerate all nodes spec'd by
	the policy
     regexp operates on xpath expression itself
     not sure of complexity of xpath; could be valuable to have
	more direct approach on expressions
     best approach make xpath expression more strictly defined.
     does think regexp has some issues for knowing scope
    Hal: other discussions, running xpath backwards not feasible
     non-terminating, leads to infinite calculations
    Erik: indiv res can match into the DOM, more context w/o resource
    Rich: this discussion is closely related to proposal
    Hal: identifying resources is separate problem from obtaining
     elements and attrs from xml document. selectors avoid
     designators; 3rd case is when you have xml resources.
    Paul: thinks it is covered by other mechanisms, not needed

    Resolution: this does not appear to be a new issue, it appears
     to be more background material for issue 11.

  Proposal to change MULT profile: to clarify resource-id formats,

    Paul: msg 53: line 64-74; when you implement this it is important
	for users to know what is going to happen when they issue
	a request. Multiple requests from single results.
      scope attrs when xml content; a->e branches on what you
	do based on scope.
    Jan: for whole hierarchy requires multiple individual requests
 	results in one decision.
    Paul: seems out of place in mult profile
    Jan: entire hierarchy -> first have descendants as resource-ids
	might want to say how you want results combined; ex scope
	is children and want one result, can't currently do. Might
	have attr for aggregation of responses.
    Paul: still doesn't understand why can't be done w existing mech.
    Rich: missing scope entire hierarchy vs descendants not matched
	by xxx vs children; Jan's proposal could elim need for
	entire hierarchy section w aggregation attr
    Paul: understands option is for one answer, w different input
    Paul: in proposed steps (number "4" is missing, but steps are
	ok and just 5->n becomes 4->n-1.
    Rich: need a little time to go thru algorithm proposed.
    Hal: where is Jan constrained from what doing
    Jan: multiple category attrs, independent of his current concerns.
	do not have multiple category issue yet
    Hal: that is "outer loop"
    Jan: concern is unique id attributes
    Paul: issue w categories?
    Jan: no reqt to use that approach.

    Hal: proposals on table:
	1. paul approach w small tweaks, xml doc and xpath can 
		do what's needed
	2. run regexp over xml is namespace issue, rich proposal
		names nodes in xml doc for reg exp

    Jan: how does xpath do the identity test? How is unique name
	for this node.
    Erik: internal pointer ref. Point on clark notation, there
	is some mechanism in xpath
    Paul: evaluate in context of existing features
    Hal: if we can solve using off the shelf tools, better than
	inventing our own.
    Hal: our problem of naming a node explicitly in xpath may
	not be what xpath designed to do, but erik mentioned
	a possible mechanism.

     Hal: will try to organize what needs to be decided

    Bill: picked up straggler roll call
    Meeting adjourned 11:05 AM
    (items below not discussed except where noted)

  Resource xpath and XPathCategory issues:

  Follow-up info on #54: delegation/admin
  #54 Issue instant attribute

	Erik withdraws issue to postpone to later time
	DEFERRED until after 3.0.

  #11 Hier URI Ref Profile Proposal
  discussion: multiple comments and replies/clarifications:

 Carry-over issues:

  #23 Updated Multiple Profile Wording
   DEFERRED as ongoing discussion

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