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Subject: Re: [xacml] Any kind of policies in a request

Hi Anil

I dont understand precisely what your objection is. Please could you be 
more specific by answering the following questions

i) there should be a general mechanism for querying any remote PDP for 
an authz response Y/N

ii) there is a need to dynamically push a policy to a remote PDP along 
with an authz decision request Y/N

iii) the v2 XACML request/response context can be used as a general 
purpose mechanism for making an authz query to any ABAC PDP Y/N

iv) the SAMLv2 profile of XACML can be used as a general purpose 
mechanism for pushing a policy to a remote PDP along with making an 
authz query Y/N



Anil Saldhana wrote:
> David,
>   I have a hard time really agreeing to your proposal of interlinking 
> requests and xacml policies.
> The XACML policy aspect has to be out of band wrt the request-response 
> mechanism.
> Regards,
> Anil
> On 11/23/2009 06:12 AM, Erik Rissanen wrote:
>> David,
>> I have been thinking more about this.
>> I think that an extension point to plug in any kind of policy format 
>> does not belong in the XACML core schema, and thus not in the 
>> <Request>. The XACML schema is for defining the XACML language, and we 
>> would lose some of the benefits of standardization by allowing any 
>> content in it.
>> However, SAML defined in the past a protocol for AuthZ query/response. 
>> It is my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, that 
>> there was an agreement between the SAML and XACML TCs that the XACML 
>> request schema would supersede the SAML AuthZ formats, and SAML 
>> dropped their own. The original SAML protocol was ambiguous regarding 
>> the policy language.
>> If we think of the XACML SAML profile to carry the legacy of the 
>> original SAML AuthZ protocol, than I guess it would make sense to 
>> support other policy languages since the original protocol was not 
>> XACML specific.
>> What do the rest of the TC see as the scope of the XACML SAML profile? 
>> Is it just about supporting XACML, or does it have a wider scope?
>> Best regards,
>> Erik
>> David Chadwick wrote:
>>> Subsequent to the minutes
>>> Rich.Levinson wrote:
>>>> Proposed schema change for policies and discussion from
>>>>  David Chadwick and response from Erik:
>>>>   http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200911/msg00023.html
>>>>    Erik: David proposed req ctx schema for ext pts xml any, where
>>>>     can put proprietary policy lang things; doesn't make sense
>>>>     to std on any policies in fmt; suggest using saml/xacml
>>>>     mechanism
>>>>    Rich: sees it as potentially disruptive, effectively allowing
>>>>     elements as children of PolicySet
>>>>    Bill: proprietary elements don't make sense; need further info
>>>>     to be considered;
>>>>     defer topic until more info from David addressing concerns
>>>>      in email and minutes
>>> It makes sense because we cannot assume that every PDP talks the 
>>> XACML policy language. However, it is possible to make every PDP talk 
>>> the XACML request/response context. Once we have sticky policies and 
>>> obligations which we pass around a distributed system we need to be 
>>> able to cater for multiple policy languages. If you see my 
>>> presentation at W3C yesterday at
>>> http://www.w3.org/2009/policy-ws/slides/Chadwick.pdf
>>> and look at slide 5 from 11, you will see why we need to relax the 
>>> schema requirements on the policy element in the SAML-XACML profile, 
>>> otherwise we have no standard way of passing a sticky policy to an 
>>> AIPEP or Master PDP.
>>> regards
>>> David 
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David W. Chadwick, BSc PhD
Professor of Information Systems Security
The Computing Laboratory, University of Kent, Canterbury, CT2 7NF
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