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Subject: Minutes for 5 May 2011 TC Meeting:

Time: 13:00 EDT
Tel: 513-241-0892 Access Code: 65998

Minutes for 5 May 2011 TC Meeting:

I. Roll Call&  Approve Minutes:
Roll call:

Erik Rissanen
Abbie Barbir
Paul Tyson
Doron Grinstein
David Choy

Remon Sinnema
Sridhar Muppidi
Jan Herrmann
Bill Parducci
Anthony Nadalin

Rich Levinson
Hal Lockhart
John Tolbert
John Davis
David Staggs

   we have quorum

    hal: preliminary: focus on v3 specs over other issues

Approve Minutes: 28 April 2011 TC Meeting Minutes (updated):

    hal: approved no objection

II. Administrivia

Ongoing: "ITU-T Files of Interest":
  Abbie will provide status as available
  hal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201105/msg00000.html

   hal: posted msg; they will incorporate errata, w rec#, there is
	self-explanatory data

   abbie: 16 files for xacml 2.0 will be incorporated; targeted to
	be done aug-sep time frame; will bring xacml 2 in synch
	w oasis
	xacml 3: will keep it in phase w oasis work
   hal: kmip interested in submitting
   abbie: is looking into it.

Ongoing: F2F Planning Update
  status:  F2F will be held in June 28th, 29, 30th in Lexington, MA
   at the Boeing facility
   John Tolbert to publish logistics information
  hal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201105/msg00001.html

   hal: john t. volunteered boeing facilities in Lexington
	email posted w logistics and hotels
	will need to have dial-in access: john: no problem

new: next wk is european conf; should we have call next week;
   hal: will not have mtg next week. (it is optional week anyway)

Ongoing: OASIS XACML Webinar: OASIS asks is there interest to develop?
  XACML Webinar set for 8 June, 2011 at 11:00ET US
  Hal, Erik and Doron will be presenting. Development in progress.

Ongoing: "OASIS IDtrust Member Section to host IIW - 3-5 May 2011":
  dee: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201103/msg00057.html
  is there any news from this conf?

   hal: the mtg is over

III. Issues

new: hal wants to close the extended indeterminate debate

  hal: critical wording is in C.1
   hal: is it sufficient to look at declared effects or should
	we calculate beyond the effects;
	reading c.1 does not make clear which algorithm
	was intended.
   rich: this issue also existed in 2.0 w the Target of
	the Rules.
   erik: steven legg posted on comments that wasn't clear how
	it works if Targets evaluated. Paul found xacml
	behaved in different. Some agreement that it is too
	big to tackle in 3.0.
   hal: there was 3rd issue: how do legacy work w combining algs.
   erik: no difference in behavior.

   erik: table 7, need to go back 1 step; starts when evaluating
	PolicySet; not intended to be in C.1;

   hal: consensus that we need some chgs from wd-19;
  	consensus on legacy algs.
	consensus on not going Paul's route

   paul: looking for understanding;
   rich: tried to explain
   erik: if you have 2 rules: 1 Permit and 1 Deny and alg is
	deny-override; if deny is found then it doesn't matter
	whether the other rule is evaluatable or not.
	if you don't have extended indeterminate; you cannot
	filter out irrelevant errors. PEP would not tell
	difference between type of indeterminate.
   paul: then these should not be seen in final result
   erik: that is correct: response from pdp
   hal: this is internal indeterminate state for internal eval.
   paul: would suggest led down this path; did not have notion
	of policy equivalence.

   rich: asserts that if policy target is indeterminate then all
	that needs to be done is to look at the effects of the
	rules and there is no point in evaluating the targets
	and conditions.

   paul: for completeness treat all rules as indeterminate;
   hal: that is the old policy algorithms; no longer can distinguish
	between d and p.

   rich: it is 2x2 issue: one axis is d or p, the other is evaluate
	target or not.

   paul: one way to determine indeterminate is to put in increasingly
	more complex analysis; if in order to understand, that is
	not serving the purpose of xacml.

new:<PolicySet>  elements under PPS elements in RBAC profile"
  jan:  http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00066.html
  rich: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00083.html
  rich: should this be resolved w action item to update 1st ref in doc?

   hal: one other issue: jan reported problem;
   erik: the normative section was modified, but tne non-normative was
	not updated. We should update the non-normative;

	action->  update the rbac spec;

   hal: for missing attrs - indeterminate can indicate go get the attr.

	no meeting next week: next call May 19.


new (carryover): "Profile examples"
  rich: links to hier examples:
   anne's 2004 doc: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200406/msg00033.html
   actual doc: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200406/pdf00003.pdf
   rich: forest and dag non-xml resource examples:
   rich: background on xml resource URI example: (many emails followed this
	to point where we came to agreement on current spec):
  doron: to start a discussion thread on list and provide examples that his
    company is using to represent their hier operations

Update: BTG Profile (Break The Glass):
latest: (david summary + follow on comments)
  david: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00074.html
  remon: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00078.html
  david: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00081.html
  remon: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00082.html

Update: "Attribute predicate profile for SAML and XACML":
  remon(zbac): http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00080.html
  Greg, is in the process of splitting document into a SAML Profile
    and XACML profile. He is a bit unclear as to what is needed in XACML
    profile based upon Paul's comments on the list. Hal offered that a
    Profile may created or an artifact on non-normative document track.
    Greg noted that he is awaiting feedback from the SAML group on the
    proposal made to that group.

update: "XACML working drafts"
"WD-19 of core and WD-14 of SAML profile" these specs are being reviewed.
  list of issues addressed is in 1st link, docs are in 2nd link:
   list-fixes: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00018.html
   doc-links:  http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00017.html

Following are carried over: not ref'd in last minutes:

Update: "The Indeterminate flavors question" (aka: Extended Indeterminate)
  remon: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00079.html
  erik: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00045.html
  paul: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00046.html
  rich: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00053.html

Carried: PIP directive (additional information directives)
original (David): http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201010/msg00005.html
  Hal: noted that this topic has been quiet and offered that he is
    working on an approach to possibly combining some of the ideas
    that have been considered.

Carried: "usage of status:missing-attribute in case of an AttributeSelector
      - control of the pip through xacml rules"
  jan: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201103/msg00059.html
  paul: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201103/msg00060.html
  erik: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00002.html
  jan:  http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201104/msg00003.html

Carried: ""Web Friendly" Policy Ids":
  hal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201103/msg00044.html
  paul: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201103/msg00046.html

Carried: Specifying a specific associated Resource in a Policy (Sticky Policies):
  hal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/201103/msg00012.html

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