OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

xacml message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]

Subject: RE: [xacml] Issues Relating to Obligations

Hi David,



> I would say that if the policy is permit overrides, then a permit with no obligations (e.g. from Alice) should not require the obligations of a second permit (e.g. from Bob) to be

> executed. So this would not produce the result you want.


Why? “Permit-overrides” only specifies how the authorization decisions of the underlying rules/policies are to be combined. The obligation-combination behavior should be orthogonally configurable.


Moreover, “permit-overrides” does not specify *which* one of the permitting rules/policies override, so, when two underlying elements permit, how do you specify which obligation to return? For example, in a permit-override policy, Alice’s Rule and Bob’s Rule both decide to permit, each with different obligations, which one’s obligations must be returned? Note that if the answer is to rely on the order of appearance in the XML code, that just makes things more complicated (I explained this: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xacml/email/archives/201302/msg00015.html)


I understand how the PDP currently works, but I am trying to show it is not enough for handling obligations. I also understand that there might be workarounds to create the expected behavior in this or that example, but I believe this is a general issue. My suggestion is:

-          As a short-term solution, we define a profile of obligation-sensitive combining algorithms to support this.

-          As a long-term solution (maybe in the vision for XACML-4.0), we consider supporting two separate combing functions for obligation and authorization decisions at the PolicySet and Policy level.







> On the other hand if the policy is deny overrides, then Bob can decide to either forbid all access, or grant access with his obligation. In the latter case his obligation will be executed if Alice grants access with no obligations.


>So Erik would appear to be correct






On 08/03/2013 03:28, Mohammad Jafari wrote:

>  > 3. Another issue I am trying to remember is the question that

> current combining methods allow applicable policies and rules to be

> skipped if the value of the Effect can be determined without them.

> This means that some Obligations in applicable policies may not be

> discovered. This was debated extensively in the old days. (I am and

> was firmly in the optimized evaluation camp.) My recollection of the

> final resolution was that thru the proper choice of combining methods,

> it is possible to force all policies to be evaluated. Does anyone know if this is true?

> Bill or anybody else do you remember this debate and its outcome?


> Yes, you can use combining algorithms to do this. If you have a

> policies with obligations for a permit decision for instance, you can

> use a deny-overrides algorithm to collect them all, since this will

> continue processing all policies even if it finds a permit decision.

> Conversely you can collect deny obligations with a permit-overrides.


> I know that this might work but I don’t think it’s a good idea.


> First, what if one wants to have a /permit-overrides/ behavior for

> authorization decisions but collect all applicable obligations? The

> obligation- and authorization-combining behavior should be expressible

> separately and independent of each other.


> An example use-case: consider a record containing psychology notes

> resulting from a couple counseling for Alice and Bob with doctor

> Charlie. Now suppose that Alice and Bob eventually break up and Alice

> wants to continue counseling with a second doctor Doris.


> The overall policy is that the consent of either of the clients

> involved in the counseling is enough to grant access to the notes to a

> second psychologist (permit-overrides). On the other hand, Bob’s

> consent includes an obligation to redact his personally identifiable

> information (name and address) from the notes for any doctor other

> than his own psychologist. So, we need a permit-override behavior and

> yet we need to combine all the obligations.


> Also, I think using the combing algorithms like that is essentially

> “tricking” the PDP to process the obligations in a certain way based

> on the side-effects of an authorization combining algorithm on obligations.

> I think it is not desirable to rely on a implications like that and it

> is better for the policy readability to rely on explicit parameters

> that tell the PDP how to process obligations and authorization

> decisions from the underlying elements.


> Regards,


> Mohammad


> Best regards,


> Erik


>  > Hal


>  >


[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]